Hi Bruno Marchal 

There is ontological genocide here of everything but numbers.

"Concrete" (below) is here used as a mathematical type,
the implication beuing that the world is made up exclusively of numbers. 

What ever happened to the Higgs boson ? What natural number is it ?
Whatever happened to meatballs ? Are they rational or irrational numbers ?

Can you eat numbers ? 



----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Concrete Number 
a number that is accompanied by the name of a unit of measure (for example, 5 
m, 7 kg);
 it is contrasted with an abstract number (for example, 5, 7). A concrete 
number is termed simple 
if it includes only one unit of measure and compound if it includes several 
units of measure. For example, 
the concrete number 3 m 67 cm is compound, but the equivalent concrete number 
367 cm is simple."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That only applies to the world of mathematics. Number just means number, it 
cannot be for example something phnysical like a meatball.



Roger , rclo...@verizon.net
8/18/2012 
Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him so everything 
could function."
----- Receiving the following content ----- 
From: Bruno Marchal 
Receiver: everything-list 
Time: 2012-08-18, 10:43:57
Subject: Re: The difference betrween abstract and concrete




On 18 Aug 2012, at 16:03, Roger wrote:


Hi Bruno Marchal 

How can that be ? I'll try to keep that in mind that the natural numbers are 
concrete,


OK. It is a bit of a vocabulary choice, but many mathematician agrees with the 
idea that a number is more concrete than anything else. Hardy wrote nice text 
on this, that I quoted a long time ago on this list.








but to me at least concrete things are physical (exist in spacetime) 
while numbers are nonphysical (exist outside of spacetime). 


I understand the feeling, but with comp it is an illusion. Physical objects are 
fictional construct of the mind to ease the math that the brain has to do for 
making us feeling that we can manipulate them, and with some luck manipulating 
them in the local self-referentially correct way so that we augment our local 
chance of surviving relatively to our most statistically normal computations.


George Papy, a belgian mathematician, told me that he found funny that abstract 
art often presents very concrete object, like a red square or a yellow 
triangle, and that realist art represent things which looks concrete, like a 
battle field, but a battle field is something very abstract and complex. It 
looks concrete to us only because we have an incredibly powerful computer in 
the head who does all the complex abstract math needed to delude a person into 
the feeling that it is real and concrete.


Bruno







Roger , rclo...@verizon.net
8/18/2012 
Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him so everything 
could function."
----- Receiving the following content ----- 
From: Bruno Marchal 
Receiver: everything-list 
Time: 2012-08-18, 09:46:24
Subject: Re: The difference betrween abstract and concrete




On 18 Aug 2012, at 13:59, Roger wrote:


Hi meekerdb -- I go with the dictionary:

ab穝tract/ab strakt/ Adjective:Existing in thought or as an idea but not having 
a physical or concrete existence.


con穋rete/k n kret/
Adjective:Existing in a material or physical form; real or solid; not abstract.









The dictionary has been written in the Aristotelian era. That will not work if 
we are machine. In that case a better definition might be on the line of:


Concrete: a precise natural number


Abstract:  anything else.


Bruno








8/18/2012 
Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him so everything 
could function."
----- Receiving the following content ----- 
From: meekerdb 
Receiver: everything-list 
Time: 2012-08-17, 14:38:08
Subject: Re: The difference betrween abstract and concrete


On 8/17/2012 8:30 AM, Roger wrote: 
Hi Jason Resch 
 
One -- especially a computer -- cannot experience abstractions.
 
One (ie only living entities) can only experience the concrete. 

Except physics tells us that concrete is mostly empty space and a ray in an 
enormous Hilbert space.

Brent
Riddle: What's has four legs, fur, meows and is made of concrete?
Answer: A cat.  I just threw in the concrete to make it hard.


 
ab穝tract
   adjective 
1. thought of apart from concrete realities, specific objects, or actual 
instances: an abstract idea. 
 
Roger , rclo...@verizon.net
8/17/2012 
Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him so everything 
could function."




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