On 18 Aug 2012, at 17:38, Roger wrote:

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Hi Bruno Marchal There is ontological genocide here of everything but numbers.

`Yes. It is not so a problem, as what we consider real from inside is`

`not the ontology, but the bigger epistemological reality which emerges`

`from the ontology, whatever it is if it is sigma_1 complete (Turing`

`universal).`

"Concrete" (below) is here used as a mathematical type,the implication beuing that the world is made up exclusively ofnumbers.

`This phrasing can be misleading. The world is not make up of numbers.`

`The worlds are better described as being dreamed by numbers. If you,`

`Roger, dream of a chair, you would not say that the chair is made up`

`of Roger, OK?`

What ever happened to the Higgs boson ? What natural number is it ?

Excellent question. The detailed answer should look like:

`numbers ---> self-reference ---> probability on self-continuation --->`

`arithmetical quantization ---> quantum symmetry groups ---> particles`

`---> boson.`

`the part "numbers ---> self-reference ---> probability on self-`

`continuation ---> arithmetical quantization" has already been done.`

`The part "quantum symmetry groups ---> particles ---> boson" is very`

`complex.`

Whatever happened to meatballs ? Are they rational or irrationalnumbers ?Can you eat numbers ?

`No, but the point is that person supervening on number relations can`

`dream (live) that they eat meat.`

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Concrete Numbera number that is accompanied by the name of a unit of measure (forexample, 5 m, 7 kg);it is contrasted with an abstract number (for example, 5, 7). Aconcrete number is termed simpleif it includes only one unit of measure and compound if it includesseveral units of measure. For example,the concrete number 3 m 67 cm is compound, but the equivalentconcrete number 367 cm is simple."---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------That only applies to the world of mathematics. Number just meansnumber, it cannot be for example something phnysical like a meatball.

`You are completely right. But once you postulate the laws of addition`

`and multiplication, numbers organized themselves a lot, and that is`

`what lead to dreams of physical things. Physical things don't exist`

`ontologically, or "really". Physical things are just unavoidable`

`stable and partially shared experiences by persons supervening on`

`computations, existing in arithmetic.`

`This has the advantage of explaing where the physical realm comes`

`from, + the incompleteness gift which explains why it divides into`

`quanta and qualia, in the discourse of the self-observing machines/`

`numbers.`

Bruno http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.