On 10/16/2012 2:17 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote:



On Tuesday, October 16, 2012 9:08:49 AM UTC-4, Stephen Paul King wrote:

    On 10/16/2012 8:54 AM, Richard Ruquist wrote:
    > On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 8:29 AM, Craig
    Weinberg<whats...@gmail.com <javascript:>>  wrote:
    >> >Computation is an overly simplified emergent property of
    sense. If you could
    >> >have computation without sense, then there would be no
    consciousness.
    >> >Craig
    >> >
    > Could you provide a link where you more fully explain what sense is
    > and how it relates to comp and consciousness? You probably already
    > have. But I missed it.
    > Richard
    Hi Richard,

         Unless you are a zombie, you are experiencing right now exactly
    what Sense is. Only you can know exactly what the Sense of Richard
    Ruquist and Craig can only experience (and thus know) what his Sense
    is.  What you need to understand is that Sense is strictly 1p, it
    has no
    3p aspect. You either experience your own version of it or, like
    Dennett
    and the materialist, try to deny its existence.


Right! At the same time, I would say that there is no truly 3p aspect of anything. The 3p arises as an internalization of many 1p (private qualitative) experiences within another 1p experience (as quantitative public token views).

Craig

I agree 100%. All 3p related concepts are abstractions constructed from many different 1p's. The idea of "Reality" is a good example of this and it is why I define Reality as "what which is incontrovertible for some collection N (N > 2) of observers that can communicate (or interact) in some meaningful way. Of course the word "meaningful" is a bit ambiguous...

--
Onward!

Stephen

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