On 10/19/2012 6:35 AM, Roger Clough wrote:
Hi Stephen P. King

Maybe I'm wrong, but Dennett could be a zombie, because he seems to deny 1p.
He also denies qualia, so you could test his personhood by asking him what color
your eyes are. Or if he is awake or asleep.

 Hi Roger,

    We have no way of knowing for sure. Certainty is impossible.

Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen

----- Receiving the following content -----
From: Stephen P. King
Receiver: everything-list
Time: 2012-10-16, 14:24:07
Subject: Re: Is consciousness just an emergent property of overly 
complexcomputations ?

On 10/16/2012 2:17 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote:

On Tuesday, October 16, 2012 9:08:49 AM UTC-4, Stephen Paul King wrote:
On 10/16/2012 8:54 AM, Richard Ruquist wrote:
On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 8:29 AM, Craig Weinberg  wrote:
Computation is an overly simplified emergent property of sense. If you could
have computation without sense, then there would be no consciousness.
Could you provide a link where you more fully explain what sense is
and how it relates to comp and consciousness? You probably already
have. But I missed it.
Hi Richard,

      Unless you are a zombie, you are experiencing right now exactly
what Sense is. Only you can know exactly what the Sense of Richard
Ruquist and Craig can only experience (and thus know) what his Sense
is.  What you need to understand is that Sense is strictly 1p, it has no
3p aspect. You either experience your own version of it or, like Dennett
and the materialist, try to deny its existence.

Right! At the same time, I would say that there is no truly 3p aspect of 
anything. The 3p arises as an internalization of many 1p (private qualitative) 
experiences within another 1p experience (as quantitative public token views).


     I agree 100%. All 3p related concepts are abstractions constructed from many different 1p's. The idea 
of "Reality" is a good example of this and it is why I define Reality as "what which is 
incontrovertible for some collection N (N > 2) of observers that can communicate (or interact) in some 
meaningful way. Of course the word "meaningful" is a bit ambiguous...





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