On 1/7/2013 5:09 AM, Platonist Guitar Cowboy wrote:



On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 2:56 AM, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net <mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>> wrote:

    On 1/6/2013 3:45 PM, Platonist Guitar Cowboy wrote:


    On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 12:19 AM, Stephen P. King <stephe...@charter.net
    <mailto:stephe...@charter.net>> wrote:

        On 1/6/2013 4:56 PM, meekerdb wrote:
        On 1/6/2013 1:33 PM, Stephen P. King wrote:
        On 1/6/2013 3:49 PM, Roger Clough wrote:
        Hi Stephen P. King
        The word "must" implies forcible persuasion.

        Hi,

            But the use of force to persuade is not the essence of fascism. 
Fascism
        is a governing system where the population can own property privately 
but the
        use of said property is dictated by the State. Most countries are 
fascistic.

        Only because you've taken a single attribute of Fascism and taken it to 
be a
        definition.  Fascism is the idea that a nation is a kind of super-being 
in
        which labor, industry, and government are *bound together into one* 
(hence the
        name) and the life of citizens takes meaning from how they serve their
        function as an element of The State.  This was further taken to imply 
that
        superior, i.e. Fascist, nations should bring this superior culture to 
other
        inferior, i.e. non-Fascist, nations by armed conquest.

        Brent
        "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism, since it is the
        merger of state and corporate power."
                 --- Benito Mussolini.
--

            Thank you, Brent, for this. ;-) I was trying to highlight the 
behavior of
        fascism in ways that do not invoke extraneous discussion. All that you 
added,
        while true, is irrelevant to my definition as it is representative of 
just one
        form of fascism, that of Mussolini's Italy.


    Negative, from German perspective: Nazi as adherent to NSDAP (German:
    Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei) so "national socialist 
german
    worker's party" wrote in their constitution that "corporations potentially 
pose a
    threat to the state and have to thus be merged with state force to 
facilitate
    common good". This was done not only to build and develop weapons, but to 
build the
    A1 freeway, on which yours truly traveled south today.

    Don't know how Japan handled it, but imagine that it would've run along 
similar
    lines. High efficiency, high productivity, lowers unemployment, 
automatically
    restrains budding monopolies... all the kind of things the west proclaims 
to want
    today; even though history should at some point teach us what this means, 
we don't
    seem to get it or don't want to.

    Nazism was not Fascism.  It borrowed from Fascism but it added mystic 
racism, Hitler
    cult, and genocide.

    Brent


Didn't imply that.

Much less I'd say... if someone's wearing a Mussolini corporate state control merger fascism-pin, as implied by your quote of Mussolini, then it doesn't matter to me which other pins, mystical or belief (what was that difference again?) based, that person wears:

It would make a difference to me. A fascist just has a bad idea about the relation of the state, the corporation and the individual. A nazi is a racist who believes that there is a superior Aryan race which should rule over all other people and that there are inferior races that should be exterminated.

they are fascist in that precise sense. They might be Japanese, play scrabble, and be slightly overweight too, which is absolutely, definitely healthy ;)

An adherent to Nazism is a fascist via the corporate-state-merger-idea and reasoning, although the reverse is not necessary. Nazism did not merely "borrow" this: the whole economic upswing in the early Nazi years can be traced to the merger idea, and Germany took this as far as it could. If corporations didn't play ball: leave or die.

They were facist or corporatist in this precise sense, and the cult/mysticism (difference to belief, I ask again? Isn't any belief system viewed externally just 'mysticism' in pejorative sense?) didn't change this: it enforced it.

No, the arguments made for fascism and communism were mostly rational. The argument for the superiority of an Aryan race and the significance of "Blud und Volk" was purely an emotional appeal to the German ego (corruption as Alberto would say).

Brent

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