On 10 Jan 2013, at 20:37, Quentin Anciaux wrote:

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It's not working just fine if *repeated* occurence of such*extremelly low probability* occurs.

`I recall that you are the one who insisted for fixing a final world/`

`date in which we evaluate the theories (MWI, ~MWI), without any`

`forward shots. I agree that a sequence of little miracles can seem`

`more miraculous than one big miracle. But the seeming can be deceiving/`

`misleading, and that is why we resume the discussion in term of`

`probabilities.`

`Then the problem is that in term of probabilities, the event of being`

`selected in a big concrete set (MWI) is equivalent with the event of`

`being selected concretely in a big set of mathematical possibilities`

`(collapsing wave).`

`The probability is just a very tiny one, so strongly tiny that the`

`witnesses in the final world will get mad, I think.`

If you say it's fine, then you're simply saying probability ismeaningless.

`The problem is that the witnesses in the final world have lived a`

`stochastic miracle. I am sensible that it seems a bit less miraculous`

`with MWI than with collapse, but this is just because the collapse`

`does not make sense to me right at the start. If it did, I would no`

`more see why the event would be more miraculous than without collapse,`

`as the selection in both case appears with the same probabilities.`

`A non null probability event can happen, whatever the probabilities`

`come from.`

I wonder what measurement you'll accept to falsify a theory ?

`But here, due to the fact that we put ourselves at the place of people`

`living a stochastic miracle, we have to admit that their experiences,`

`challenge QM, that is both QM-MWI and QM-collapse. Starting from that,`

`the point consists in defending if it is less miraculous with MWI or`

`with ~MWI, and your point is not convincing in that respect, for the`

`witness, even if, as we have agreed I think, it can be for the`

`experimenter (but not completely: he might get a second thought and`

`put the gun in the dress thinking he might have just been incredibly`

`lucky: no one get a proof 'course).`

`And it seems to me that this is made more obvious if you realize that`

`in the normal worlds of the experimenter, she is the only one 'guy on`

`the planet surviving, all the time, the super-gun shot. Like if both`

`QM-MWI and QM-collapse continues to work perfectly, except when apply`

`to her, where they are both statistically disconfirmed.`

`Your argument is not valid on "Tegmark's point", but it might be`

`developed into an argument for MWI, following another line than`

`probability. I would agree that the infinite case, where on a planet`

`some family survives the QS since many generation and continue to do`

`so, would make MWI more plausible, as in the limit the probability is`

`zero (but of course we are never at that limit). Here your point that,`

`MWI justifies, at least, the necessary existence of such "impossible"`

`event might make sense. But you have to work out that more, imo.`

`Hmm... They (the people on that planet) might just believe in the`

`collapse by "enough" consciousness, so that only that family got the`

`consciousness enough to prevent the collapse on the "bang", I dunno, I`

`try hard to find sense in your intuition.`

Bruno

Regardsn Quentin 2013/1/10 meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net>You can as well say collapse is saved because P=10^-6 > 0 and soprobability calculus is working just fine. Collapse and MWI use thesame probability calculus.Brent On 1/10/2013 10:42 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote:Yes but in QM + collapse it is a potentiality which happenaccording to the probability in mwi it is a proportion, it alwayshappen. If the event always happen your prior probability calculusis severly broken. Mwi is saved because in mwi probability are notabout happening but are proportions in qm+collapse it is abouthappening.Quentin Le 10 janv. 2013 19:34, "meekerdb" <meeke...@verizon.net> a écrit : On 1/10/2013 7:37 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote:No, I say it can no more happen in collapse theory without *a verygood* explanation principle. I'm sorry but if the theory predictit happens with a 1/10⁹ probability of occurence and every timeyou test it, it happens... I'd say your prior probability calculusis screwed, so without a *good* explanation, your theory can besaid to be falsified. As I said, the *good* explanation with MWIis that *it does* happen.But MWI also predicts P=10^-6. Brent --You received this message because you are subscribed to the GoogleGroups "Everything List" group.To post to this group, send email to everything-l...@googlegroups.com.To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.--You received this message because you are subscribed to the GoogleGroups "Everything List" group.To post to this group, send email to everything-l...@googlegroups.com.To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.comVersion: 2013.0.2890 / Virus Database: 2637/6023 - Release Date:01/10/13--You received this message because you are subscribed to the GoogleGroups "Everything List" group.To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.-- All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. --You received this message because you are subscribed to the GoogleGroups "Everything List" group.To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.

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