On 1/16/2013 10:59 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:


On 16 Jan 2013, at 13:13, Roger Clough wrote:

Hi Bruno Marchal

Specific properties, at least down here, are needed
if you accept Leibniz' dictum that identical entities cannot
exist in this contingent world, for they would have the same identity.

I'm inclined to say that that is also true in Platonia,
which would be a disaster, for you could not say 1 = 1.
A saving grace might be that one of those 1's is before,
and the other, after the equal sign.   That is, the numbers
are distinguished by context.

I agree with all what you say here. Tell this to Stephen.
Note that we are distinguished by context too.

Bruno
Hi,

There is no context or figure-ground relation at the primitive level as such would be a distinction that makes no difference. To who or what would such matter? Even consciousness cannot be primitive, as it is distinct from non-consciousness.. Property neutrality is a necessary condition for ontological primitivity.

The principle of Identity of Indiscernibles (of Leibniz) is exactly what I base my claim upon. In the absence of an agent to affect distinctions or to have a bias of a point of view, all properties vanish. Contingency is, at best, all that can be claimed, thus my proposal that existence is necessary possiblity. When we consider the nature of ontological primitives and understand that we are considering what must occur in the situation where there is no special or preternatural agent to distinguish a 1 from a 2, for example, then it follows that even the property of being a number becomes degenerate.

--
Onward!

Stephen


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