On 21 Jan 2013, at 19:00, Craig Weinberg wrote:
On Monday, January 21, 2013 12:36:48 PM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 21 Jan 2013, at 18:11, Craig Weinberg wrote:
On Monday, January 21, 2013 11:53:07 AM UTC-5, John Clark wrote:
Science had to fight every inch of the way against theology and
theologians and the fight still isn't over.
That is a fiction of historical revisionism. Science is a kind of
philosophy, philosophy is a refinement of theology. You will never
find a civilization which has developed science without philosophy
or philosophy without some kind of spiritual framework of
cosmology. That's just the facts, man. The founders of Western
Enlightenment science would be quite surprised to hear that their
invention of science was a fight against theology as they were
profoundly theological and philosophical in their orientation. It
is only recently, as the limitations of the narrow Western approach
are being revealed on a global scale, that science has fallen into
a fundamentalist pathology which makes an enemy of teleology.
... Theology, I guess you meant. Good point.
Thanks. I have more sympathy for science rejecting Theology, just
because I see Theology as focused on extending subjective types of
truth to the public universe as a whole. Science may not be complete
without addressing larger theological issues, but it has been
important to temporarily suppress them to develop tools of
I agree. Aristotle's theological primary matter idea was a fertile
simplifying assumption. It led to modern physics, but becomes an
unconscious dogma, again, for many (but not all thanks God!)
I think that where it has overstepped its bounds in recent years
(and I don't blame anyone for this, it's probably inevitable in the
pendulum swing of the history of sense-making) is in using the
objective tools to dismantle subjectivity altogether. That's why I
was saying enemy of teleology. Sense, order, purpose, etc.. have
become the despised contaminants which somehow are the exclusive
province of the scientist, but not allowed anywhere else in the
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