On Thursday, January 24, 2013 11:08:14 PM UTC-5, John Clark wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 24, 2013  Craig Weinberg <whats...@gmail.com <javascript:>>wrote:
> > evolution is complex and counter-intuitive. 
> The basic idea behind Evolution is not complex but it is counter-intuitive 
> because the human mind tends to endow intentionality to nearly everything. 
> That's why Darwin's ideas, although simpler than Newton's, too longer to 
> find.  

Funny thing that. In a universe devoid of intention, the human mind is 
overflowing with the illusion of intention.

> > A universe from invisible, intangible laws that pop into 'existence' 
>> from nowhere seems likely?
> Darwin can't explain why there is something rather than nothing and 
> neither can anybody else, 

I can, and I have. There is no 'nothing'. Nothing is an idea that a 
participant in something has about the absence of everything.

least of all the invisible man in the sky dingbats. Darwin can't even 
> explain how life first came to be on this planet, but once bacteria came to 
> be he can explain how humans evolved from them, and that's a pretty good 
> accomplishment. 

It is an extraordinary accomplishment. Not knocking Darwin.

> Science can explain a lot but it hasn't explained everything, but religion 
> hasn't explained anything. Zip zero nada goose egg.

Religion is not about explaining what is useful, it is about explaining 
what seems important. Judging religion as a competitor to science is like 
judging your head as a competitor to the rest of your body. Again, you make 
it about winning winners who win, proving the non-winners to be LOSERS. 
This is not the attitude of science, or philosophy, or theology, it is 

> > I didn't say that God is not seen as grand, only that the concept of God 
>> is not a grand concept. See (use-mention distinction). 
> I am quite familiar with the  use-mention distinction and that ain't it. 
> If God is grand so is the concept.

Uh, no. The US Federal Tax Code is grand. The concept of a nation having a 
tax code is not grand. 

The God concept is incredibly primitive and compelling (as attested to by 
anthropological universality). It is basically this. 

A child understands:

I can know things and do things.
Grownups know more things and can do more things than I can do - they are 
wiser, stronger, more aware, and have been around longer.
"Who can do and know more things than grownups?"
There must be grand-grownups who know and do more than anyone. 
There must be someone who knows and does everything.
Our Father, who art in heaven...

That's it. Big Daddy = God. Not complex.

> >> But you aren't exactly a expert on science, you admitted that to you 
>>> most scientific papers are just a huge amount of mumbo jumbo, so your 
>>> readers might be wise to take your views on the value of science with a 
>>> grain of salt.
>> > Argument from authority.
> Despite its many faults the argument from authority beats the hell out of 
> argument from ignorance; and Craig let's face reality, you know next to no 
> science and the really depressing thing is that you're not even trying to 
> learn more.

When the first fallacy fails, move on to the Ad Hominem.

You must have forgotten to defend your reasoning though. Let's face reality 
John, you can't stand losing.


>   John K Clark

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