On 1/24/2013 11:59 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote:



On Thursday, January 24, 2013 11:08:14 PM UTC-5, John Clark wrote:

    On Thu, Jan 24, 2013  Craig Weinberg <whats...@gmail.com
    <javascript:>> wrote:

        > evolution is complex and counter-intuitive.


    The basic idea behind Evolution is not complex but it is
    counter-intuitive because the human mind tends to endow
    intentionality to nearly everything. That's why Darwin's ideas,
    although simpler than Newton's, too longer to find.


Funny thing that. In a universe devoid of intention, the human mind is overflowing with the illusion of intention.


        > A universe from invisible, intangible laws that pop into
        'existence' from nowhere seems likely?


    Darwin can't explain why there is something rather than nothing
    and neither can anybody else,


I can, and I have. There is no 'nothing'. Nothing is an idea that a participant in something has about the absence of everything.

    least of all the invisible man in the sky dingbats. Darwin can't
    even explain how life first came to be on this planet, but once
    bacteria came to be he can explain how humans evolved from them,
    and that's a pretty good accomplishment.


It is an extraordinary accomplishment. Not knocking Darwin.

    Science can explain a lot but it hasn't explained everything, but
    religion hasn't explained anything. Zip zero nada goose egg.


Religion is not about explaining what is useful, it is about explaining what seems important. Judging religion as a competitor to science is like judging your head as a competitor to the rest of your body. Again, you make it about winning winners who win, proving the non-winners to be LOSERS. This is not the attitude of science, or philosophy, or theology, it is wrestling.


        > I didn't say that God is not seen as grand, only that the
        concept of God is not a grand concept. See (use-mention
        distinction).


    I am quite familiar with the  use-mention distinction and that
    ain't it. If God is grand so is the concept.


Uh, no. The US Federal Tax Code is grand. The concept of a nation having a tax code is not grand.

The God concept is incredibly primitive and compelling (as attested to by anthropological universality). It is basically this.

A child understands:

I can know things and do things.
Grownups know more things and can do more things than I can do - they are wiser, stronger, more aware, and have been around longer.
"Who can do and know more things than grownups?"
There must be grand-grownups who know and do more than anyone.
There must be someone who knows and does everything.
Our Father, who art in heaven...

That's it. Big Daddy = God. Not complex.


            >> But you aren't exactly a expert on science, you
            admitted that to you most scientific papers are just a
            huge amount of mumbo jumbo, so your readers might be wise
            to take your views on the value of science with a grain of
            salt.


        > Argument from authority.


    Despite its many faults the argument from authority beats the hell
    out of argument from ignorance; and Craig let's face reality, you
    know next to no science and the really depressing thing is that
    you're not even trying to learn more.


When the first fallacy fails, move on to the Ad Hominem.

You must have forgotten to defend your reasoning though. Let's face reality John, you can't stand losing.

Craig

Hear Hear!

--
Onward!

Stephen

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