Dear Bruno, a brilliant statement.
I use the more polite word *'agnosticism'* for *'ignorance'*.

In our 'absence of knowledge' (how 'bout that?) we try hard to develop some
*faith* in a setup explaining *'us',* 'our world', 'whatever happens' (and
why not) etc. based on the ever increasing content of our 'model' we hold
in our faith for the world over the millennia. Yours is based on arithmetic
(numbers), mine on a "beyond model infinite complexity", Roger's on
"God"(?) and Richard's on a physical view(???). All poorly developed belief
systems, in spite of a technology seemingly so efficient recently. A big
almost.
Nobody has 'access' to the *real stuff*, - if there is such at all.
Worldviews are individual mini-solipsisms, personally different.
Science accepts opinions (measured-explained-reasoned  questionably) of
honest former scientists taught in schools. Religion accepts the Bible(?)
etc. sources for answers, - both upon hearsay.
Then come emotions and 'screw-up' the world.

John M

On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 7:05 AM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:

>
> On 25 Jan 2013, at 16:38, Alberto G. Corona wrote:
>
> Dear Roger,
> This is the lutheran view. That´s fine. I love lutherans. but this work as
> long as you have faith. But once leave the faith,  people have no guide in
> very important things and fall in primitive cults with a modern facade.
> For this reason I advocate the scientific study of faith, belief, morals
> etc.
>
> I particularly don´t feel comfortable talking about subjects like this in
> this group. But belief, and shared beliefs, is an irreductible component of
> what we call "reality".
>
>
> Separating science and religion makes both science and religion into
> pseudo-science and pseudo-religion.
>
> There is no science, there is only people able to stay calm in front of
> ignorance, I think.
>
> Bruno
>
>
>
>
>
> 2013/1/25 Roger Clough <rclo...@verizon.net>
>
>>
>> I have no conflict being a scientist when I deal with science, and being
>>     a Christian when I deal with the Bible.
>>
>> Or with science when I deal with science and with aesthetics when
>>     I visit an art museam. Or go to a concert.
>>
>> Or with being a scientist when I deal with the Big Bang
>>     and being a Christian when I read Genesis. Two different
>>     accounts, from two different realms, of the same event.
>>
>> Science has its own realm of validity in the realm of facts,
>>     but has no place -not even a foothold-- in the world of values.
>>
>> The difference between a fool and a wise man is in knowing the difference.
>>
>> - Roger Clough
>>
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>
>
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