On 06 Feb 2013, at 10:22, Alberto G. Corona wrote:




2013/2/6 Stephen P. King <stephe...@charter.net>
On 2/5/2013 3:27 PM, Alberto G. Corona wrote:



2013/2/5 Stephen P. King <stephe...@charter.net>
Hi,

ISTM that purpose is a 1p, so to ask the question in a 3p sense is to make it meaningless.


That´s it.


But to insist into make the question in 3p may force the introduction of an implicit 1p that contemplate the 3p, that is, a metamind , with a metatime etc. (To avoid pavlovian responses, i don´t mention the G. world). That is the meaning of my previous response.

Hi Alberto,

    But the meta versions would be 1p's in their own right, no?


Absolutely. Not only when talking about purpose. Most of the concepts we use are 1p, so it is supposed that they are meaningless when used in the description of a multiverse . Precisely because the multiverse is a design with the explicit goal of eliminate purpose as an axiom.

But at the end, as I mentioned, this goal is not possible, because we can not avoid the infinite regression in the search for causes, and causality is 1p indeed.

I agree that causality is 1p, but that makes causality emergent, and secondary, not fundamental. We can stop the regression at the place we postulate the theory. I have explained why arithmetic is a good starting places. It explains the physical and non physical 1p and 3p, and it explains why we cannot take less than arithmetic (or Turing equivalent).



Se inadvertently, when we talk about what exist and what do not exist in a multiverse, we turn into looking at an implicit 1p designer of the multiverse

Arithmetic is enough. It is 3p.




At the end we can not think outside 1p. Scientific inquiry is comunicable 1p.

If it is communicable, it can be 1p, but it is genuinely 3p too. The 1p part is not relevant, I think. Unless you assume that the whole arithmetic truth is conscious. That's an open problem, but we don't need to solve it to extract physics from the "number's dreams".




Because the world of the mind -where we live- is and ever will be teleological.

OK with this. In a sense, matter is teleological with comp.

Bruno






On 2/5/2013 6:23 AM, Russell Standish wrote:
Only in the same sense that evolution is teleological, ie not really.

Cheers

On Tue, Feb 05, 2013 at 06:59:01PM +1100, Kim Jones wrote:
So does this explain the PURPOSE of the universe or merely a dominant FUNCTION? The blind exercise of function doesn't seem to me to include the global concept of purpose. The use of this word is about my only gripe with it. I could be wrong.

Cheers,

K






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Onward!

Stephen

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Alberto.

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