# Re: Lee Smolin and Darwin's Uncommon Success

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On 06 Feb 2013, at 10:22, Alberto G. Corona wrote:```
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2013/2/6 Stephen P. King <stephe...@charter.net>
On 2/5/2013 3:27 PM, Alberto G. Corona wrote:
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2013/2/5 Stephen P. King <stephe...@charter.net>
Hi,

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ISTM that purpose is a 1p, so to ask the question in a 3p sense is to make it meaningless.
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That´s it.

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But to insist into make the question in 3p may force the introduction of an implicit 1p that contemplate the 3p, that is, a metamind , with a metatime etc. (To avoid pavlovian responses, i don´t mention the G. world). That is the meaning of my previous response.
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Hi Alberto,

But the meta versions would be 1p's in their own right, no?

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Absolutely. Not only when talking about purpose. Most of the concepts we use are 1p, so it is supposed that they are meaningless when used in the description of a multiverse . Precisely because the multiverse is a design with the explicit goal of eliminate purpose as an axiom.
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But at the end, as I mentioned, this goal is not possible, because we can not avoid the infinite regression in the search for causes, and causality is 1p indeed.
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I agree that causality is 1p, but that makes causality emergent, and secondary, not fundamental. We can stop the regression at the place we postulate the theory. I have explained why arithmetic is a good starting places. It explains the physical and non physical 1p and 3p, and it explains why we cannot take less than arithmetic (or Turing equivalent).
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Se inadvertently, when we talk about what exist and what do not exist in a multiverse, we turn into looking at an implicit 1p designer of the multiverse
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Arithmetic is enough. It is 3p.

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At the end we can not think outside 1p. Scientific inquiry is comunicable 1p.
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If it is communicable, it can be 1p, but it is genuinely 3p too. The 1p part is not relevant, I think. Unless you assume that the whole arithmetic truth is conscious. That's an open problem, but we don't need to solve it to extract physics from the "number's dreams".
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Because the world of the mind -where we live- is and ever will be teleological.
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OK with this. In a sense, matter is teleological with comp.

Bruno

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On 2/5/2013 6:23 AM, Russell Standish wrote:
Only in the same sense that evolution is teleological, ie not really.

Cheers

On Tue, Feb 05, 2013 at 06:59:01PM +1100, Kim Jones wrote:
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So does this explain the PURPOSE of the universe or merely a dominant FUNCTION? The blind exercise of function doesn't seem to me to include the global concept of purpose. The use of this word is about my only gripe with it. I could be wrong.
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Cheers,

K

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Onward!

Stephen

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Alberto.

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