On Thursday, February 7, 2013 10:50:23 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote:
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> On 06 Feb 2013, at 17:39, Craig Weinberg wrote:
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>
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> On Wednesday, February 6, 2013 9:50:35 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 05 Feb 2013, at 21:34, Craig Weinberg wrote:
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>>
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>> On Tuesday, February 5, 2013 3:27:27 PM UTC-5, Alberto G.Corona wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 2013/2/5 Stephen P. King <step...@charter.net>
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>>     ISTM that purpose is a 1p, so to ask the question in a 3p sense is 
>>>> to make it meaningless.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That´s it.
>>>
>>>
>>> But to insist into make the question in 3p may  force the introduction 
>>> of an implicit  1p that contemplate the 3p, that is,  a metamind , with a 
>>> metatime etc. (To avoid pavlovian responses, i don´t mention the G. world). 
>>> That is the meaning of my previous response.
>>>
>>
>> Why doesn't the metamind need a metamind?
>>
>>
>> In fact arithmetic explains the presence of mind, in both the 3p and 1p 
>> view. Even without comp actually, by using the definition of mind by 
>> self-reference, and true self-reference (with truth guven by Tarski theory 
>> applied to arithmetic).
>>
>> Bruno
>>
>>
> What explains the presence of arithmetic?
>
>
> It is mysterious. But it is the least mysterious thing that we have to 
> assume to talk on anything else.
>

Sense is less mysterious because we experience it first hand. It is most 
mysterious because it cannot be explained. It cannot be explained because 
there is nothing more primitive than sense with which to explain it. To 
begin to talk arithmetically, you have to first have a way to talk. That is 
sensory-motor participation. Input and output. Without I/O, there is no 
reason for numbers, as the purpose of numbers is to represent figurative 
relations discretely - not to manifest material objects or subjective 
experiences (even if they can be used to figuratively represent one to the 
other).
 

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> Or if we assume arithmetic, why should there be the presence of anything 
> else?
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> That's the point. There isn't anything else. 
>

But you are always saying 'no, that's not arithmetic, that's the dreams of 
numbers, or the contents of the dreams of numbers.' How can you have it 
both ways? 

>
> Arithmetic is quite enough to explain how immaterial beings can get lost 
> in terrestrial realities, and why those realities obeys laws, and which 
> laws.
>

Only if you assume terrestrial qualities and realism and beings in advance. 
If there isn't anything but arithmetic, then why should such qualities and 
experiences exist?

Craig
 

>
> Bruno
>
>
>
>
> Craig
>  
>
>>
>>
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>>  
>>
>>>  
>>>>
>>>> On 2/5/2013 6:23 AM, Russell Standish wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Only in the same sense that evolution is teleological, ie not really.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Feb 05, 2013 at 06:59:01PM +1100, Kim Jones wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> So does this explain the PURPOSE of the universe or merely a dominant 
>>>>>> FUNCTION? The blind exercise of function doesn't seem to me to include 
>>>>>> the 
>>>>>> global concept of purpose. The use of this word is about my only gripe 
>>>>>> with 
>>>>>> it. I could be wrong.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> K
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> Onward!
>>>>
>>>> Stephen
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Alberto. 
>>>
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