2013/2/6 Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> > > On 06 Feb 2013, at 10:22, Alberto G. Corona wrote: > > > > > 2013/2/6 Stephen P. King <[email protected]> > >> On 2/5/2013 3:27 PM, Alberto G. Corona wrote: >> >> >> >> >> 2013/2/5 Stephen P. King <[email protected]> >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> ISTM that purpose is a 1p, so to ask the question in a 3p sense is >>> to make it meaningless. >>> >>> >>> That´s it. >> >> >> But to insist into make the question in 3p may force the introduction >> of an implicit 1p that contemplate the 3p, that is, a metamind , with a >> metatime etc. (To avoid pavlovian responses, i don´t mention the G. world). >> That is the meaning of my previous response. >> >> >> Hi Alberto, >> >> But the meta versions would be 1p's in their own right, no? >> >> >> Absolutely. Not only when talking about purpose. Most of the concepts we > use are 1p, so it is supposed that they are meaningless when used in the > description of a multiverse . Precisely because the multiverse is a design > with the explicit goal of eliminate purpose as an axiom. > > But at the end, as I mentioned, this goal is not possible, because we can > not avoid the infinite regression in the search for causes, and causality > is 1p indeed. > > > I agree that causality is 1p, but that makes causality emergent, and > secondary, not fundamental. > We can stop the regression at the place we postulate the theory. I have > explained why arithmetic is a good starting places. It explains the > physical and non physical 1p and 3p, and it explains why we cannot take > less than arithmetic (or Turing equivalent). > > > > Se inadvertently, when we talk about what exist and what do not exist in a > multiverse, we turn into looking at an implicit 1p designer of the > multiverse > > > Arithmetic is enough. It is 3p. > > > > > At the end we can not think outside 1p. Scientific inquiry is comunicable > 1p. > > > If it is communicable, it can be 1p, but it is genuinely 3p too. The 1p > part is not relevant, I think. Unless you assume that the whole arithmetic > truth is conscious. That's an open problem, but we don't need to solve it > to extract physics from the "number's dreams". > > > Math is ambiguous on that. We can postulate a 3p mathematical existence apart from any mind and any reality. We can imagine that, but this is probably because we assume an implicit 1p mind or meta-mind that is contemplating the mathematical thing. That is my guess and this is the most coherent notion of existence, related to a mind,, even for mathematical existence (apart form a null hypothesis in which everything exist). That is indeed the neoplatonic view. Its´nt it?
> > > Because the world of the mind -where we live- is and ever will be > teleological. > > > OK with this. In a sense, matter is teleological with comp. > > Bruno > > > > > >>> >>> On 2/5/2013 6:23 AM, Russell Standish wrote: >>> >>>> Only in the same sense that evolution is teleological, ie not really. >>>> >>>> Cheers >>>> >>>> On Tue, Feb 05, 2013 at 06:59:01PM +1100, Kim Jones wrote: >>>> >>>>> So does this explain the PURPOSE of the universe or merely a dominant >>>>> FUNCTION? The blind exercise of function doesn't seem to me to include the >>>>> global concept of purpose. The use of this word is about my only gripe >>>>> with >>>>> it. I could be wrong. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> >>>>> K >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Onward! >> >> Stephen >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> >> >> > > > > -- > Alberto. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > > > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > -- Alberto. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
