2013/2/7 Platonist Guitar Cowboy <multiplecit...@gmail.com>

>
>
> On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 8:11 PM, Quentin Anciaux <allco...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> 2013/2/6 meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net>
>>
>>>  On 2/6/2013 1:25 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>  On 06 Feb 2013, at 04:00, meekerdb wrote:
>>>
>>>  On 2/5/2013 11:02 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, February 5, 2013 1:14:07 PM UTC-5, John Clark wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Feb 5, 2013  PM, Craig Weinberg <whats...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>  > Unpopular religions are denounced as cults.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> A religion is just a cult with good PR.
>>>>
>>>
>>> It's interesting. I would be curious to know whether every established
>>> religion intentionally sought legitimacy at some point,
>>>
>>>
>>> What would that mean? Legal? Where there is official government
>>> recognition of religion (and probably tax breaks) the answer would be that
>>> they sought the recognition.  And all that you can consider 'established'
>>> have sought adherents.  But "legitimacy"??  I'm not sure how that world can
>>> be attached to "religion".
>>>
>>>
>>>  In my country, that is the case. Religions have to be recognized by
>>> the government. If not they are classified as sect, and are forbidden (like
>>> scientology). It is awkward and arbitrary, but that's simply the case.
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm curious.  How do they get recognized?  Do they  have to apply,
>>>
>>
>> They have to apply. But contrary to what Bruno claims, sect are not
>> illegal, some sects can and have been declared illegal (as any group can
>> be). But for example, scientology is not illegal in Belgium (for now) but
>> they are often brought to justice by ex-member (for good reason I think).
>>
>
>
> Sorry to be frank, but if this is serious (I miss some joke), then it is
> naive: the mechanism that serves to monitor and "regulate" the founding of
> religions in Western Europe, is the same judicial tool to control and
> finally repress religious groups- by seemingly "integrating" them.
>
> The moment any of these groups moves to do things like:
>

Well they have to conform to the laws (same as in the USA)... So no sects
are not illegal in belgium, they can't be declared illegal as long as they
conform to the laws like anywhere else on earth. And as I said, scientology
*is not* illegal in belgium and it is *in practice* not in theory.

No if you rant about the laws it's a totally different subject and you
should not conflate the two.

Regards,
Quentin


>
> - change conceptions of marriage
>
> - change conceptions of family
>
> - import for example its sacred ceremonial brew from South America, that
> has a controlled substance in it for thousands of years
>
> - want more appropriate economic frameworks for taxation for their
> conceptions of groups and individuals (why not marriages, as Judith Butler
> often put forward, between 3,4,5 or more partners, if their financial
> strategy and survival is solid with every partner consenting? Today: If a
> community of six partners works and lives together, hopefully they pair off
> to 3 males and 3 females, and still they would be taxed as 3 couples)
>
> - or simply make too much money: the western democracy rears its
> totalitarian face; less obvious than in North Korea, but let's stop telling
> ourselves stories about our democracy vs. China etc. We have learned
> nothing from totalitarian times and wars.
>
> Just because we hide the totalitarian tendencies in different judicial
> spots of cultural prejudice, doesn't mean freedom of religion.
>
> A Rastafarian wanting some of his sacred herb in France: fat chance, if he
> were to cite his religious reasons in court.
>
> So yes, you can apply for official recognition of your religion if you are
> interested in playing poker in pairs with plastic money beside your bed.
>
> Sorry, prohibition applies here too. So yes, alternate religious groupings
> are in practice illegal in Western Europe, if not on paper.
>
> PGC
>
>
> ----
>
>
>>
>> Quentin
>>
>>
>>> or does the government have some standard (numbers?) by which they
>>> automatically get recognized?  Do they have to file some statement of
>>> doctrine/theology/dogma with the government so that it can be determined
>>> whether a group is a splinter sect or a different religion?  Is Mormonism
>>> recognized?
>>>
>>> Brent
>>>
>>>
>>>  The result is that sect become secret societies, so it is even harder
>>> to get rid of them, or for adherent to ever been able to get out of the
>>> influence. It is a real social dramatic problem. Then corruption makes also
>>> some sect still developing, like notably scientology.
>>>
>>>  Bruno
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
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