On 2/7/2013 7:12 AM, Platonist Guitar Cowboy wrote:
On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 8:11 PM, Quentin Anciaux <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
2013/2/6 meekerdb <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
On 2/6/2013 1:25 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 06 Feb 2013, at 04:00, meekerdb wrote:
On 2/5/2013 11:02 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote:
On Tuesday, February 5, 2013 1:14:07 PM UTC-5, John Clark wrote:
On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 PM, Craig Weinberg <[email protected]> wrote:
> Unpopular religions are denounced as cults.
A religion is just a cult with good PR.
It's interesting. I would be curious to know whether every established
religion intentionally sought legitimacy at some point,
What would that mean? Legal? Where there is official government
recognition of
religion (and probably tax breaks) the answer would be that they sought
the
recognition. And all that you can consider 'established' have sought
adherents. But "legitimacy"?? I'm not sure how that world can be
attached to
"religion".
In my country, that is the case. Religions have to be recognized by the
government. If not they are classified as sect, and are forbidden (like
scientology). It is awkward and arbitrary, but that's simply the case.
I'm curious. How do they get recognized? Do they have to apply,
They have to apply. But contrary to what Bruno claims, sect are not
illegal, some
sects can and have been declared illegal (as any group can be). But for
example,
scientology is not illegal in Belgium (for now) but they are often brought
to
justice by ex-member (for good reason I think).
Sorry to be frank, but if this is serious (I miss some joke), then it is naive: the
mechanism that serves to monitor and "regulate" the founding of religions in Western
Europe, is the same judicial tool to control and finally repress religious groups- by
seemingly "integrating" them.
The moment any of these groups moves to do things like:
- change conceptions of marriage
- change conceptions of family
- import for example its sacred ceremonial brew from South America, that has a
controlled substance in it for thousands of years
- want more appropriate economic frameworks for taxation for their conceptions of groups
and individuals (why not marriages, as Judith Butler often put forward, between 3,4,5 or
more partners, if their financial strategy and survival is solid with every partner
consenting? Today: If a community of six partners works and lives together, hopefully
they pair off to 3 males and 3 females, and still they would be taxed as 3 couples)
- or simply make too much money: the western democracy rears its totalitarian face; less
obvious than in North Korea, but let's stop telling ourselves stories about our
democracy vs. China etc. We have learned nothing from totalitarian times and wars.
Just because we hide the totalitarian tendencies in different judicial spots of cultural
prejudice, doesn't mean freedom of religion.
A Rastafarian wanting some of his sacred herb in France: fat chance, if he were to cite
his religious reasons in court.
One can invent a religion and cite it for anything from eating hallucinogenic mushrooms to
burning Jews. In the U.S. the general rule is that a legal prohibition must serve a
secular purpose (not be directed specifically at a religion) and laws apply equally to
everyone. So if your religion says you can beat women who show their face in public,
that's just too bad for your religion.
So yes, you can apply for official recognition of your religion if you are interested in
playing poker in pairs with plastic money beside your bed.
Sorry, prohibition applies here too. So yes, alternate religious groupings are in
practice illegal in Western Europe, if not on paper.
PGC
So what's the advantage of being recognized? Will some authority prevent you praying at a
shrine or from reading your sacred text if you're not recognized? Will you get some tax
advantage if you are? And when a religion is recognized that must imply that it is
somehow defined. How is that done? And how finely are religions defined...is
Christianity recognized as one religion, or do they distinguish Catholics from Baptists
from Mormons? This all seems impossibly messy.
Brent
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