On 12 Apr 2013, at 17:39, Telmo Menezes wrote:

On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 5:07 PM, Richard Ruquist <yann...@gmail.com>wrote:Telmo, I can only give you my opinion.Thanks Richard.You are of course referring to the doubleslit experiment where one photon can follow at least two differentpaths,and potentially an infinite number of paths.But even diffraction of a single photon will do that: in thesimplest casesend a photon on to a semi-infinite metallic plane and the photonpotentially scatters into an infinite number of paths from the edgeof theplane. We only know which path when the photon reaches a detectorplane onthe far side. The actual deterministic diffraction pattern onlyemerges whenthe number of photons sent approaches infinity in plane waves. Theactualpath of a single photon is random within the constraints of the infinite-photon diffraction pattern.So I say the way to deal with that is to propagate a large numberof photonsor do an EM wave calculation for the diffraction pattern.But then we're still left without a theory that could explain the behaviour of a single photon without resorting to randomness, correct?I wonder how comp treats such single photon instances. Does it use algorithms that are random number generators?I'll leave this one for Bruno, of course. My understanding is that it's consistent with the MWI and also with what Russel proposes in his book: everything happens but each observer only perceives one of the outcomes. This seems highly unintuitive to a lot of people, but it seems more reasonable to me than the idea that there is just one Telmo with one personal diary. If there are infinitely many, each one with his own personal diary, the world still looks exactly like it does to this particular instance of me, and we do not have to resort to any randomness magic. It's tempting for me to extend this idea to everyone and not just Telmos, at the risk of sounding a bit new-agey. I don't yet understand how an algorithm could be a random number generator (non-pseudo), but I think Bruno has more to say here.

`In math, there is many randomness. Diagonal argument can easily prove`

`most real or decimal infinite expansions are random, in the strongest`

`form of randomness.`

`Some simple programs can generate strings passing all the usual test`

`of randomness, like just counting`

012345678910111213141516..... 7500008956790021176043275260881 ....

`You said to John Clark that you don't believe in physical randomness.`

`Me too. As you say it is easier to explain it by the FPI on some`

`domain, like Everett universal wave or on arithmetic with comp. I am`

`with you and Einstein on this :)`

`All physical events have a determinist cause and reason. I think`

`Einstein said he would prefer to be a plumber if that was not the case.`

`But as logician, I can't exclude completely a (comp) physics with non`

`causal events, as the physics extracted from comp is only in its`

`infancy, to say the least. Even in that case the non physical cause`

`will have an arithmetical reason, and that non cause would emerge from`

`the first person (plural) indeterminacy on the UD* or (sigma1)`

`arithmetic. No need of unnecessary magic.`

Bruno

Telmo.RichardOn Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 10:35 AM, Telmo Menezes <te...@telmomenezes.com>wrote:On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 4:24 PM, Richard Ruquist <yann...@gmail.com> wrote:Mathematics itself seems rather magical. For instance the sum 1+2+3+4+5.....infinity = -1/12 And according to Scott Aaronson's new book when string theorists estimate the mass of a photon they get two components: one being 1/12 and the other being that sum, so the mass is zero, thanks to RamanujanIf that sum is cutoff at some very large number but less thaninfinity,does anyone know the value of the summation.?Hi Richard, Ok, but in that case physics is deterministic, just hard to compute. How do we then deal with the fact that two photons under the precisesame conditions can follow two different paths (except for somehiddenvariable we don't know about)? I'm not a physicist and way over my head here, so this is not a rhetorical question.On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 10:15 AM, Telmo Menezes <te...@telmomenezes.com>wrote:On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 3:30 AM, Stathis Papaioannou <stath...@gmail.com> wrote:On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 5:35 AM, Craig Weinberg <whatsons...@gmail.com> wrote:On Thursday, April 11, 2013 3:29:51 PM UTC-4, John Clark wrote:On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 Craig Weinberg <whats...@gmail.com> wrote:If matter is deterministic, how could it behave in a randomway?It couldn't.Are you saying then that matter is random, or that it is neither random nor deterministic?Matter behaves randomly, but probability theory allows us to make predictions about random events.In my view, randomness = magic.The MWI and Comp are the only theories I've seen so far that donotrequire magic to explain observed randomness.-- Stathis Papaioannou --You received this message because you are subscribed to theGroups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group.To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails fromit, sendan email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group.To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,sendan email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.--You received this message because you are subscribed to the GoogleGroups"Everything List" group.To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,send anemail to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.--You received this message because you are subscribed to the GoogleGroups"Everything List" group.To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,send anemail to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.To post to this group, send email to everything-l...@googlegroups.com.Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.--You received this message because you are subscribed to the GoogleGroups "Everything List" group.To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

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