On 13 May 2013, at 23:49, Stephen Paul King wrote:

Does the UD compute *all* functions or only those that are recursively enumerable? AFAIK, the latter, as a set, has a measure zero as a subset of the former. This is one reason why I worry about the viability of UDA (and AUDA), it postulates a severely restricted subset of the possible functions as ontologically primitive without a good argument as to why.

The why is the why of the comp hypothesis. Church thesis is very solid, and the evidences are that brains operates computably.



Just because we finite mortals can only counts in terms of natural numbers is not an argument that All-that-Exists is limited to that standard. Man is NOT the measure of all things!

But with comp, the universal machine is.

Bruno





On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 2:02 PM, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote: I don't know. It would seem you would want to believe that if you were going to say "yes" to the doctor, since the doctor is relying functionalism to ensure the replacement works. But Bruno's UD computes all functions and he theorizes that 1p consciousness consists of a sequence of states in this computation, if I understand him correctly.

Brent



On 5/13/2013 10:39 AM, Stephen Paul King wrote:
We should add that computationalism postulates that consciousness is a process that can be exactly specified by a recursively enumerable function. No?


On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 1:16 PM, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:
On 5/13/2013 5:41 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote:
On Sun, May 12, 2013 at 7:05 PM, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:
On 5/12/2013 9:00 AM, Jason Resch wrote:


If your mom ate something different while pregnant with you, such that you developed with different atoms, does that mean someone else would have been born in your place and you wouldn't be conscious? Or if one unexpressed gene was different, would it be someone other than you looking through those eyes? What if one gene were different, but it was of little consequence, or what if multiple genes were different, etc. How much of the circumstances would have to change for you to never have been born? If you admit that different matter or different genes would not make it such that you were
never born, then are you not all your siblings as well?


That doesn't follow. The most common theory of why you are you is that the structure of your brain and body encode computations that are peculiar to you. You are determined by the structure that effects these computations. This is independent of the particular atoms and molecules and even a lot of the structure. As Bruno puts it, it depends on the level of substitution. Just because there is a level, e.g. atoms, that makes no difference, it
doesn't follow that there is not a difference at another level.
It's hard to have this discussion with a single word for "you". 1p- you
and 3p-you might make it easier. The 3p-you is characterised by a
number of physical processes that we more or less understand. For
example, if I fall and lose a bit of skin from my knee that won't
change much, but there is possible a relatively small set of neurons
that can be changed to alter my personality. But the idea that the
1p-you is determined at a substitution level seems silly to me

I said it was the most common theory. Not that it was right. Computationalism is the theory that there is no substitution level which doesn't instantiate you1 so long as the computation is the same.


(unless
we can find some fundamental process by which the 1p arises).
Otherwise, I find it easier to believe that there is only one 1p
conscious entity that gets instantiated on everyone (and possible
everything), at all times, in all possible universes.

Even assuming computationalism there can be different computations and hence different 1p. As I understand Bruno's theory, consciousness is not an entity, it's described by a relation between threads of computation.

Brent



Telmo.

Brent


--
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/everything-list/K7E-Vfwj4QU/unsubscribe?hl=en . To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com .
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en .
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.




--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en .
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.



http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/



--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.


Reply via email to