On 5/25/2013 11:03 AM, Jason Resch wrote:



On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 10:35 AM, <spudboy...@aol.com 
<mailto:spudboy...@aol.com>> wrote:


    Interesting Jason,
    My issue with the multi-generated clones created either by the actions of a
    multiverse or the actions of hypercomputers, my concern is that, its such a 
waste
    (in my opinion) that a Jason who belongs to an identical Earth, but humans 
all have
    elephant tricks instead of noses. Or a Jason Resch, belonging to a species 
that has
    rectangular crystal panels built in their stomachs and backs (see thru). I 
am
    shooting for ridiculous incarnations of J. Resch, in order to illustrate the
    unlikeliness, of this method of producing the actual person-thoughts 
feelings
    memories. The memory thing as a blue print, to me, seems, essential, for
    resurrection. I could be totally wrong, but I am merely trying to simplify 
this for
    myself, if nobody else.  Thanks, Jason.


Mitch,

Consider a few points: First, roughly 100 billion humans have ever lived in this history of humans, the life expectancy of humans over most of that time was 10 years, so roughly there have been 1 trillion years worth of human experience. Second, if transhumanism is correct and we transcend our biological limits we could not only live much longer but generate experiences at greatly accelerated rates. It would take the then current population of people (say it is 10 billion) only 100 years to generate the same total amount of experience of all humans going back millions of years. Even if only 10% of the population, spends only 1% of their time simulating/experiencing alternate lives or histories, it would take a mere 100,000 years for most of "human" experiences to be generated artificially by our descendents. This ignores the acceleration that is possible. Electricity flows through wires about a million times faster than neurotransmitters conduct signals in the brain. This implies that without any miniaturization, human thought could be accelerated by about a factor of a million times, so it could take only a month (rather than 100,000 years) for these accelerated humans spending only 0.1% of their collective time simulating ancestors for the bulk of human experience to be artificially generated. Now consider that such a civilization could live for billions of years. If each post-human experiences a few thousand or a few million ancestor lives, or alternate species, etc., then odds quickly become overwhelming that your current moment of awareness is not explained by that of some biological being on a physical planet but that of some advanced being conducting a simulation on some advanced computational substrate.

Jason

    -Mitch

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Jason Resch <jasonre...@gmail.com <mailto:jasonre...@gmail.com>>
    To: Everything List <everything-list@googlegroups.com
    <mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>>
    Sent: Thu, May 23, 2013 11:10 am
    Subject: Re: That the mind works even after the brain ceases to function 
suggests
    its ...




    On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 4:57 PM, <spudboy...@aol.com 
<mailto:spudboy...@aol.com>> wrote:

        So, Jason,by this reasoning, a sufficiently advanced technology, then, 
in
        indistinguisable from Resurrection.


    If used for such purposes.  Even if technology is not used for the explicit 
purpose
    of resurrection, say it is only used for exploration purposes, where 
simulation is
    applied to explore other possibilities of existence and being, a side 
effect will be
    to provide new paths for the consciousness of the simulated beings to 
follow.  It is
    a bit like the guy who dreamed he was a butterfly.  If it was an completely 
accurate
    dream (as simulation technology could allow), then the butterfly is given 
the
    ability to "ressurect" to become a human. Similarly, advanced "omega point"
    civilizations or Jupiter brains may choose to explore potentiality for 
consciousness
    and thus try to experience the lives of other beings.  Such an intelligence,
    existing in any physical universe that provides infinite energy/infinite 
computing
    power has the ability to experience the life of every other being anywhere 
in any
    universe (assuming computationalism).  If one of these exists anywhere, the 
it
    provides us the potential to wake up as it, just as the butterfly has the 
potential
    to wake up as a human.  Such a being may even feel compelled to provide a 
pleasant
    afterlife given all the suffering that exists in the physical worlds, 
although this
    point is more contentious.

        I mention this because I have discussed tech resurrection, as, at 
least, an
        intellectual phenomenon, over at the Kurzweil forum. There is an 
enthusiast for
        technologically based resurrection, on the forum,  has produced a 
moderately,
        large, website, that presents this concept. Most people will say this in
        impossible, and who am I to dispute them? But I still find the topic
        interesting, none the less.


    That is interesting to me.  What is the website?

        My suspicion is that there is some feature of the universe that acts as 
a
        substrate for all actions and characteristics and records it all. I am 
trying to
        peg it down to the Planck length as sort of a storage cell. The styllus 
to
        read-write could be anything from photons to neutrinos, that would 
write to the
        planck length. Who knows if it is even plausible, but I sort of like it 
anyway.
        I like NDE stuff too, and try to sort the most cogent stories from the 
least
        cogent.


    Whether or not it is recorded or extractable in this universe is 
immaterial.  If the
    universe is infinitely large or infinitely varied, we each reappear an 
infinite
    number of times.  There are a countably infinite number of programs, and 
for any
    given level of complexity, there is a finite number of possible programs 
shorter
    than some length.  Any consciousness we simulate is the consciousness of 
something
    that exists somewhere else in the infinitely varied/infinitely large 
universe, and
    if the universe is really this big, then someone else far away could 
simulate you
    perfectly without having to extract a record of you.  Just running Bruno's 
UDA for a
    long enough time "ressurects" everyone, we are all contained in that short 
program.



To which, one is tempted to respond: So what? If there is all this simulation going on, what reason is there to suppose it is being done by being anything like us or that the worlds in which the simulations take place (the "real" ones, if there are any) are anything like this one. You are simply led back to trying to discover what are possible worlds, where "possible" can be anything from "familiar enough I can understand it" to "nomologically possible" to "not containing contradictions".

Brent

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