2013/5/27 meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net>

>  On 5/27/2013 1:01 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
>
>
>  On 26 May 2013, at 20:23, meekerdb wrote:
>
>  On 5/26/2013 1:18 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
>
>
>  On 26 May 2013, at 04:00, meekerdb wrote:
>
>
>>>
>>  Whether or not it is recorded or extractable in this universe is
>> immaterial.  If the universe is infinitely large or infinitely varied, we
>> each reappear an infinite number of times.  There are a countably infinite
>> number of programs, and for any given level of complexity, there is a
>> finite number of possible programs shorter than some length.  Any
>> consciousness we simulate is the consciousness of something that exists
>> somewhere else in the infinitely varied/infinitely large universe, and if
>> the universe is really this big, then someone else far away could simulate
>> you perfectly without having to extract a record of you.  Just running
>> Bruno's UDA for a long enough time "ressurects" everyone, we are all
>> contained in that short program.
>>
>
>
> To which, one is tempted to respond: So what?  If there is all this
> simulation going on, what reason is there to suppose it is being done by
> being anything like us or that the worlds in which the simulations take
> place (the "real" ones, if there are any) are anything like this one.
>
>
>  Because the FPI makes "this one" a statistical sum on all possible one.
>
>
> What do you mean by "a statiscal sum"?  FPI must still pick out some kind
> of unity; not just an average.
>
>
>  Why? How so?
>
>
> If not, then I don't know what FPI means.  I thought it referred to one's
> experience of being a person, but the is a unity to that experience.  I
> experience being Brent Meeker.  I don't experience being Bruno Marchal.
>

Because it is a statistical sum on the infinity of computation going
through *your current state*. FPI means First Person Indeterminacy... so if
it was not based on first person it would cleary not means anything... but
as it is in its definition, you're just looking too far from what Bruno
said.

Quentin

>
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>  You are simply led back to trying to discover what are possible worlds,
> where "possible" can be anything from "familiar enough I can understand it"
> to "nomologically possible" to "not containing contradictions".
>
>
>  Possible means "livable from a first person point of view in such a way
> that you would not see the difference above the substitution level".
>
>
> So all simulations must look just like this??
>
>
>  Yes. When done at the right level (if it exists). By definition, I would
> say.
>
>
> How does that then comport with everything happens, because it's NOT the
> case that everything happens here.
>
> Brent
>
>
>
>
>
>  Below the substitution level, everyone (humans, alien, numbers ..) see
> the same average on all computations, which, due to the constraints of
> self-reference and theoretical computer science is a well structured,
> highly complex, mathematical object.
>
>  So what? So physics is reduced to arithmetic, or to machine theology...
> and this in a way which saves humans from reductionism.
>
>
> I didn't know reductionism endangered us. :-)
>
>
>  It eliminates the person, in theory first, in camp, slavery, our gulag,
> after. It is a constant in human history, and it is what gives to religions
> (including materialist and atheist one) their bad reputation. Read La
> Mettrie and Sade to learn more on this.
>
>  Bruno
>
>
>
>
> Brent
>
>  It makes also comp into science and out of philosophy. All this leads to
> a different, platonist and non aristotelian, view on "reality". It makes
> "Matter" into a failed hypothesis (Matter =primitive matter).
>
>  Bruno
>
>
>
>    http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
>
>
>
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>   http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
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-- 
All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.

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