On 7/12/2013 2:11 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:

On 11 Jul 2013, at 22:14, meekerdb wrote:On 7/11/2013 12:34 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote:On 11 Jul 2013, at 18:46, meekerdb wrote:On 7/10/2013 11:25 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote:I have given the equation. I try to explain this on FOAR but it relies on somefamiliarity in logic.Normally you should know already that physics is given by a measure on relativecomputational continuations, and the logic explains already the statisticalinterferences.QM is deterministic and there is only one 'computational continuation';?If you measure up+down in the base {up,down}, you get two computational continuation,unless you add a non deterministic collapse.No, you only get one in which the measuring device state (including you) is entangledwith the system measured.you * (up + down) = (you * up) + (you * down),That is a deterministic bifurcation leading to two (at least) computationalcontinuations, one where you see the electron in the up state and one in which you seethe electron in the down state.

`But it is not a bifurcation because it can be undone by subsequent evolution of the wave`

`function; which means there is only one computational continuation. It is only if you`

`assume collapse of the wave function that the evolution cannot be reversed and that is`

`what decoherence attempts to explain in terms of diffusing information into the`

`environment. But a fundamental theory of everything has no "environment".`

That's what "entangle" means in QM without collapse.To get two you have to treat "measurement" as some non-unitary operator.Not at all, I can also use the FPI. The measurement becomes a machine interactionfollowed by self-reference/personal memory access.

`But here you deviate from QM and treat the individual consciousness as something that can`

`irreversibly bifurcate. It is essentially Wigner's initial theory that consciousness`

`collapses the wave function. The only difference is you suppose both branches to exist.`

That's the puzzle that Everett addressed by throwing out the collapse postulate andassuming only one kind of continuation. Since that seemed like an attractive idea theproblem has become how to explain the experience of one thing happening and another not.It is solved completely by the FPI. We experience one thing and not the other for thesame comp reason why we see only W (or only M) in the WM duplication.

`What is that reason? According to QM there are two systems that are entangled with`

`environments such that they are statistically unlikely to recohere and hence form`

`persistently different memories.`

That is why Everett can use comp and remains in a purely deterministic framework. Theonly problem is that Everett did not discovered explicitly the FPI,

He explicitly postulated it of observers in QM.

which occurs also in arithmetic, which would have forced him to understand that the waveitself must be phenomenologically derived from a measure on all computations, and notone circumscribe to any special universal machine (like the quantum one).

`I don't see how reference to a "quantum machine" is relevant. QM is just a theory and in`

`fact just a schema for theories; you need the specify the Hilbert space and the`

`Hamiltonian before you actually have a theory.`

Brent

Bruno http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ <http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/%7Emarchal/> No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com> Version: 2013.0.3349 / Virus Database: 3204/6484 - Release Date: 07/11/13 --You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "EverythingList" group.To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email toeverything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

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