On Tuesday, October 8, 2013 3:40:53 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote:
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> On 07 Oct 2013, at 17:20, Craig Weinberg wrote:
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> On Monday, October 7, 2013 3:56:55 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote:
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>> On 06 Oct 2013, at 22:00, Craig Weinberg wrote:
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>> Qualia is experience which contains the felt relation to all other 
>> experiences; specific experiences which directly relate, and extended 
>> experiential contexts which extent to eternity (totality of manifested 
>> events so far relative to the participant plus semi-potential events which 
>> relate to higher octaves of their participation...the bigger picture with 
>> the larger now.)
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>> Then qualia are infinite. This contradict some of your previous 
>> statement. 
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> It's not qualia that is finite or infinite, it is finity-infinity itself 
> that is an intellectual quale. 
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> OK. But this does not mean it is not also objective. The set of dividers 
> of 24 is finite. The set of multiple of 24 is infinite. For example.
>

It might not be objective, just common and consistent because it ultimately 
reflects itself, and because it reflects reflection. It may be the essence 
of objectivity, but from the absolute perspective, objectivity is the 
imposter - the power of sense to approximate itself without genuine 
embodiment.

Is the statement that the set of dividers is finite objectively true, or is 
it contingent upon ruling out rational numbers? Can't we just designate a 
variable, k = {the imaginary set of infinite dividers of 24}? 


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> Quanta is derived from qualia, so quantitative characteristics have 
> ambiguous application outside of quanta.
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> Yes, quanta comes from the Löbian qualia, in a 100% verifiable way. 
> Indeed. But that is again a consequence of computationalism.
>

Why isn't computationalism the consequence of quanta though? What can be 
computed other than quantities?
 

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>> Qualia is what we are made of. As human beings at this stage of human 
>> civilization, our direct qualia is primarily cognitive-logical-verbal. We 
>> identify with our ability to describe with words - to qualify other qualia 
>> as verbal qualia. We name our perceptions and name our naming power 'mind', 
>> but that is not consciousness. Logic and intellect can only name 
>> public-facing reductions of certain qualia (visible and tangible qualia - 
>> the stuff of public bodies). The name for those public-facing reductions is 
>> quanta, or numbers, and the totality of the playing field which can be used 
>> for the quanta game is called arithmetic truth.
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>> Arithmetical truth is full of non nameable things. Qualia refer to non 
>> verbally describable first person truth.
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> Can arithmetical truth really name anything? 
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> I am not sure Arithmetical Truth can be seen as a person, or anything 
> capable of naming things. You are stretching the words too much. I guess 
> that if you make your statement more precise, it will lead to an open 
> problem in comp.
>

If Arithmetic truth is full of non nameable things, what nameable things 
does it also contain, and what or who is naming them? Otherwise wouldn't it 
be tautological to say that it is full of non nameable things, as it would 
be to say that water is full of non dry things.
 

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> It seems to me that we can use arithmetic truth to locate a number within 
> the infinity of computable realtions, but any 'naming' is only our own 
> attempt to attach a proprietary first person sense to that which is 
> irreducibly generic and nameless. The thing about qualia is not that it is 
> non-nameable, it is the specific aesthetic presence that is manifested. 
> Names are just qualia of mental association - a rose by any other name, 
> etc. 
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> I think this could be made more precise by taking "our" in the Löbian 
> sense.
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If quanta is Löbian qualia, why would it need any non-quantitative names?

Craig


> Bruno
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> http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
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