On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 6:39 PM, John Clark <johnkcl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 13, 2013 at 2:14 PM, Telmo Menezes <te...@telmomenezes.com>
> wrote:
>
>>>  >> I agree that if that one bit of information that they both see is not
>>> identical then the 2 men are no longer identical either and it becomes
>>> justified to give them different names.
>>
>>
>> > Ok, so you then also have to agree that John Clark 1 second ago is not
>> > identical to John Clark 2 seconds ago
>
>
> Yes.
>
>> > But things would get a bit confusing if I started calling you Mary Sue
>> > now.
>
>
> Yes.
>
>>
>> > Both you and external observers agree that you are still John Clark.
>
>
> Yes.
>
>> > Either you claim that teleportation is fundamentally different from time
>> > passing in generating new John Clarks, or you don't.
>
>
> Yes.
>
>> > Which one is it?
>
>
> I do.
>
>> > I suspect you think they are the same
>
>
> No, your prediction failed.

There goes my daily dose of dopamine. Will have to find some other way
to get it...

> I think the 2 things are fundamentally different
> because the John Clark of one second ago and the John Clark of right now
> will never meet,

Alright, but this again leaves us at a crossroad:

1) You believe that teleportation is fundamentally impossible, so this
type of thought experiment is based on an absurd premise;

2) You believe that teleportation is possible, in which case you
accept the thought experiment and are confronted with the question of
what you would perceive if you went through such an experience.

I don't feel I am sufficiently knowledge in physics to have and
educated opinion on teleportation. I'm pretty sure you have a much
more sophisticated knowledge of physics than I do, so I'm more than
happy to listen to your arguments. Not going to make any more
prediction on what you might think because my dopamine is already low.

On the next point you will see why I wasn't paying attention in physics class.

> so there is no confusion and separate names are not needed
> to avoid confusion and pronouns cause no trouble. But with duplicating
> chambers the 2 John Clarks could meet and stand right next to each other,
> and if you were to say "I like John Clark but I don't like John Clark" your
> meaning might be clear in your mind but you would need to change your
> language if you wanted to communicate the idea to others.

I had a very unpleasant physics teacher (coincidently... :) ) who
appeared to wear the same trousers throughout the entire semester. A
scientifically-minded colleague of mind decided to throw some ink at
her ass. It turns out that she, indeed, wore the same trousers for the
entire semester. How do you feel about tattoos?

> And the place to
> start would be to be careful with pronouns and give one of the John Clarks,
> it doesn't matter which one, the nickname Mary Sue.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_OW6wa7cAFBY/TPACSytH_kI/AAAAAAAAAvQ/ZZZZBmLVAQA/s1600/mary_sue.jpg

> True, John Clark might
> not like it, but a lot of people don't like their nickname.
>
>>
>> > I also predict an attempt to avoid answering the question directly
>
>
> That prediction has also failed but you still feel like Telmo Menezes
> because predictions, right or wrong, have nothing to do with identity;

I don't think I claimed predictions had anything to do with identity.

> you
> feel like Telmo Menezes because you remember being Telmo Menezes yesterday
> and for no other reason.

Yes.

>    Marry Sue (aka John K Clark)

Telmo Menezes (aka T-bone*)

* bonus points if you get the reference

>
>
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