So matter is just maya-illusion. That is really religion- right?
On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 3:45 PM, Quentin Anciaux <allco...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > 2013/10/28 Richard Ruquist <yann...@gmail.com> > >> Bruno: The fact that something is enumerable does not entail that you >> can derive it from PA, nor that it is a necessary part of physics. >> >> Richard: You got it backwards. The CY Compact manifolds are the machine >> that computes because they are enumerable. It derives everything else. In >> particular the Metaverse machine derives the universe big bang and the >> universe CY machine. I cannot say what derives the Metaverse machine >> >> Bruno: Note that we cannot derive the existence of matter in arithmetic, >> but we can, and with comp we must (by UDA) derive the machine's belief in >> matter. machines lives in arithmetic, but matter lives in the machines' >> dream which "cohere enough" (to be short). >> If it happens that the machines dream do *not* cohere enough to >> percolate into physical realities, then comp is wrong. >> >> Richard: Is this an admission that physical realities exist outside of >> comp? >> > > No, matter is an appearance hence the use of "machine's belief in > matter". There is no primary matter (assuming comp). > > >> That's what it sounds like. And I thought that comp derived physical >> realities. If it does not do that, what good is it? >> >> Bruno: Assuming comp, elementary machine's theology and physics becomes >> elementary arithmetic, relativized by the universal machine's point of >> view. It makes physics invariant for the choice of the universal system >> chosen to describe the phi_i, the W_i, etc. >> >> Richard: Here you seem to contradict you previous statement that comp >> cannot derive matter. Please forgive my confusion. >> >> >> On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 1:18 PM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote: >> >>> >>> On 28 Oct 2013, at 12:31, Richard Ruquist wrote: >>> >>> >>> Bruno Marchal >>> via<http://support.google.com/mail/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=1311182&ctx=mail> >>> googlegroups.com >>> 4:53 AM (2 hours ago) >>> to everything-list >>> On 27 Oct 2013, at 23:26, Richard Ruquist wrote: >>> >>> It is derived from PA both the universes and the Metaverse. >>> >>> >>> >>> How? >>> >>> Richard: I say how in the abstract of the second paper. The Calabi-Yau >>> compact manifolds are numerable based on observed monotonic variation of >>> the fine structure constant across the visible universe. >>> >>> >>> The fact that something is enumerable does not entail that you can >>> derive it from PA, nor that it is a necessary part of physics. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >It seems also that you believe in a computable universe, but that >>> cannot be the case if our >>> >>> >>> >(generalized) brain is computable. >>> >>> Richard: That does not make sense. >>> >>> >>> >>> If my brain is Turing emulable, and if I am in some state S, whatever >>> will happen to me is determined by *all* computations going through the >>> state S (or equivalent). Our first person indeterminacy domain is an >>> infinite and non computable set of computations. The indeterminacy domain >>> is not computable because we cannot recognize our 1p in 3p-computations >>> (like the one done by the UD). >>> Please take a look at the detailed explanation in the sane04 paper. You >>> need only the first seven steps of the UDA, which does not presuppose any >>> special knowledge. >>> It gives to any fundamental physics some non computable features. Keep >>> in mind that the computable is somehow strictly included in the provable >>> (by universal machine) strictly included in truth. >>> Computable is Turing equivalent with sigma_1 provable, but arithmetical >>> truth is given by the union of all sigma_i, for i = 0, 1, 2, 3, ... (this >>> needs a bit of theoretical computer science). >>> >>> Note that we cannot derive the existence of matter in arithmetic, but we >>> can, and with comp we must (by UDA) derive the machine's belief in matter. >>> machines lives in arithmetic, but matter lives in the machines' dream which >>> "cohere enough" (to be short). >>> If it happens that the machines dream do *not* cohere enough to >>> percolate into physical realities, then comp is wrong. >>> >>> By the UDA, and classical logic, you get the physical certainty, by the >>> true sigma_1 arithmetical sentences (the UD-accessible states), which are >>> provable (true in all consistent extensions) and consistent (such >>> accessible consistent extensions have to exist). That's basically, for all >>> p sigma_1 (= "ExP(x") for some P decidable arithmetical formula) >>> beweisbar('p') & ~beweisbar('~p') & p. The operator for that, let us write >>> it "[]", provides a quantum logic, by the application of "[]<>p". This >>> gives a quantization of arithmetic due to the fact, introspectively >>> deducible by all universal machines, that we cannot really know who we are >>> and which computations and universal numbers sustain us. Below our >>> substitution level, things *have* to become a bit fuzzy, non clonable, non >>> computable, indeterminate. >>> >>> In fact this answers a question asked by Wheeler, and on which Gödel >>> said only that the question makes no sense and is even indecent! The >>> question was "would there be a relationship between incompleteness and >>> Heisenberg uncertainties?" >>> >>> There is no direct derivation of Heisenberg uncertainty from >>> incompleteness, as that would be indecent indeed, but assuming comp and >>> understanding the FPI, you can intuit why the fuzziness has to emerge from >>> inside the digital/arithmetic, below or at our substitution level, and the >>> math of self-reference gives a quick way to get the propositional logic of >>> that "universal physics" (deducible by all correct computationalist UMs). >>> >>> And there is the Solovay gifts, which are theorems which show that >>> incompleteness split those logics,. That is useful for distinguishing the >>> true part of that physics from the part that the machine can (still >>> introspectively) deduces. Some intensional nuances, like the "[]" above, >>> inherit the split, some like the Bp & p does not, and facts of that type >>> can help to delineate the quanta from the qualia, but also the terrestrial >>> (temporal) from the divine (atemporal). >>> >>> Assuming comp, elementary machine's theology and physics becomes >>> elementary arithmetic, relativized by the universal machine's point of >>> view. It makes physics invariant for the choice of the universal system >>> chosen to describe the phi_i, the W_i, etc. >>> >>> Comp suggests to extend Everett on the universal quantum wave on >>> arithmetic and the universal machines dreams. The wavy aspect being >>> explained by the self-embedding in arithmetic. Comp entails a sort of >>> self-diffraction. >>> >>> No problem trying to get the fundamental physics from observation, and >>> indeed that will help for the comparison. The approach here keep the 1/p >>> 3/p distinctions all along, and in that sense proposes a new formulation, >>> and ways to consider, the mind-body problem (in which I am interested and >>> is the main motivation for interviewing the antic, the contemporaries and >>> the universal numbers :) >>> >>> >>> Bruno >>> >>> >>> http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> > > > > -- > All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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