On 12 Dec 2013, at 19:06, meekerdb wrote:

## Advertising

On 12/12/2013 9:21 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:2) the lower level: the description of the Heisenberg matrix stateof the entire (quantum observable) state of the entire localcluster of galaxies, (including dark matter!) and all this at thelevel of the "right" fields, or at the level of elementary stringsand branes, and this with 10^(10^10) decimals. Use the Schroedingerpicture if you prefer. No collapse!But in this case the doctor doing the substitution is included inthe substitution. I think this produces a contradiction.

`That happens all the time with universal machines. They can simulate`

`another machine simulating themselves, and the UD brought this in the`

`picture. With the phi_i and the W_i, many apparent contradictions are`

`resolved through the fact that we are confronted with non stopping`

`machines.`

`Of course, as I said, it would make the thought experience difficult,`

`for no reason, in the first six steps.`

`In this list, the first presentation of the UD was a presentation in`

`15 steps, where I made explicit the neuro-high level assumption used`

`in "step 1-6" and show explicitly at "step 7" how the UD* (the`

`complete running of the UD) discharge that assumption.`

`The mathematical reason why we escape the contradiction is related to`

`the closure of diagonalization, and to Kleene's second recursion`

`theorem, which allows machine to invoke machines invoking them. It is`

`standard in theoretical computer science.`

`Judson Webb explains well how Gödel's theorem protect Church thesis,`

`which protect mechanism. In fact Gödel's theorem and the whole of G*-`

`G, create the points of view (by the machine distinction between Bp`

`and Bp & p, etc.), and protect the whole machine's theology, by`

`splitting the communicable part from the non communicable one.`

`Mathematical logic distinguish also what is expressible by the`

`machine, and what is not expressible, yet "known" or produces as`

`"true" in many possible ways.`

`The UD even run dreams in dreams in dreams .... in a completely`

`circular way. We cannot impeach it to dig in the absurd, once it is`

`computable. That would be like trying to eliminate the number 13 from`

`the integers.`

`Obviously, if the level is so low you need to simulate the entire`

`universal wave, in practice you will say NO to the doctor, but at step`

`seven, even if the level is that low, the main consequences remain`

`unchanged.`

Bruno

Brent --You received this message because you are subscribed to the GoogleGroups "Everything List" group.To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.