On 12 Dec 2013, at 19:06, meekerdb wrote:
On 12/12/2013 9:21 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
2) the lower level: the description of the Heisenberg matrix state
of the entire (quantum observable) state of the entire local
cluster of galaxies, (including dark matter!) and all this at the
level of the "right" fields, or at the level of elementary strings
and branes, and this with 10^(10^10) decimals. Use the Schroedinger
picture if you prefer. No collapse!
But in this case the doctor doing the substitution is included in
the substitution. I think this produces a contradiction.
That happens all the time with universal machines. They can simulate
another machine simulating themselves, and the UD brought this in the
picture. With the phi_i and the W_i, many apparent contradictions are
resolved through the fact that we are confronted with non stopping
machines.
Of course, as I said, it would make the thought experience difficult,
for no reason, in the first six steps.
In this list, the first presentation of the UD was a presentation in
15 steps, where I made explicit the neuro-high level assumption used
in "step 1-6" and show explicitly at "step 7" how the UD* (the
complete running of the UD) discharge that assumption.
The mathematical reason why we escape the contradiction is related to
the closure of diagonalization, and to Kleene's second recursion
theorem, which allows machine to invoke machines invoking them. It is
standard in theoretical computer science.
Judson Webb explains well how Gödel's theorem protect Church thesis,
which protect mechanism. In fact Gödel's theorem and the whole of G*-
G, create the points of view (by the machine distinction between Bp
and Bp & p, etc.), and protect the whole machine's theology, by
splitting the communicable part from the non communicable one.
Mathematical logic distinguish also what is expressible by the
machine, and what is not expressible, yet "known" or produces as
"true" in many possible ways.
The UD even run dreams in dreams in dreams .... in a completely
circular way. We cannot impeach it to dig in the absurd, once it is
computable. That would be like trying to eliminate the number 13 from
the integers.
Obviously, if the level is so low you need to simulate the entire
universal wave, in practice you will say NO to the doctor, but at step
seven, even if the level is that low, the main consequences remain
unchanged.
Bruno
Brent
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