Bruno: So, indeterminacy, non-locality, and non-cloning, are,
qualitatively, consequence of the comp hypothesis.
[if the sub level is above the quantum level, which you say is empirically
likely]

Richard: So if non-cloning is a consequence of comp, how is duplication
possible?
I read your paragraphs over and over and still come to the same question.



On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 4:52 AM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:

>
> On 11 Dec 2013, at 17:06, Richard Ruquist wrote:
>
> Bruno: but the human will say "yes" to the doctor anyway, and without
> thinking to much
> on the theoretical consequences of the possible survival.
>
> Richard: I would always say no to the doctor because of the "no-cloning"
> theorem.
>
>
> The goal consists in explaining the no cloning theorem without assuming
> physics.
>
>
>
>
> I read your recent paper where you discuss how comp circumvents that
> theorem.
> But do not understand your argument.
> It is equivalent IMO to comp circumventing the uncertainty principle.
> Could you discuss this?
>
>
> The problem is that to explain this to you, I need to know how far you go
> in the UD-Argument.
> If you have gone through the 8 steps, you should know that all we need to
> assume is a (classical, quantum, whatever) universal formalism/theory, and
> I use the numbers+add+mult to fix the thing.
>
> Then you know that in that universal formalism, notably in the
> arithmetical reality, we can prove the existence of an infinity of
> computations (or of finite piece of computations: the first person will not
> see the difference) going through your state, defined by some substitution
> level. Below the level, and thus in the "apparent matter", there will be an
> infinity of computations needed to describe exactly that matter (the global
> FPI domain in arithmetic). This makes a priori the apparent primitive
> matter non-clonable. The primitive matter is literally a statistical sum on
> infinity of histories/computations, and you need the entire running of the
> UD to define it (to get the global FPI). It is not something a priori
> duplicable.
>
> So, indeterminacy, non-locality, and non-cloning, are, qualitatively,
> consequence of the comp hypothesis. QM confirms this (which *proves*
> nothing, to be sure).
>
> If our (sharable) level of substitution is exactly the quantum level (that
> is for example the position and impulsion of our particles at the
> Heisenberg uncertainty level, or just above) then quantum mechanics will be
> exactly derivable from comp. If our substitution level is below the
> Heisenberg uncertainty level, (we would have a quantum brain/computer) then
> things are more complex. As the UD emulates also all quantum computations,
> the reversal physics/arithmetic is still obtained, but QM could no more be
> the fundamental theory in physics, and might appear as an approximation of
> an unknown theory (something like a non-linear QM). I doubt this from the
> evidences both from introspection, biology  and physics. If our subst level
> is far above the quantum level, then QM can still be derivable from
> arithmetic, but some constants can be geographical (and thus variable in
> the whole of the physical reality).
>
> We can come back on this. Better to be completely convinced by the UDA
> before, as it gives the frame in which address your difficult question.
>
> Bruno
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Richard
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 3:55 AM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:
>
>>
>> On 10 Dec 2013, at 20:20, George wrote:
>>
>>  Hi List
>>
>> I haven't contributed to this list for a while but I thought you might be
>> interested in this article from the Science 
>> Daily<http://www.sciencedaily.com/>on line magazine
>>
>> Neural Prosthesis Restores Behavior After Brain 
>> Injury<http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/12/131209152259.htm>
>>
>>
>> Yes, things progress. Nice to hear of you George, best,
>> Of course, we cannot test the first person experience of the rat. Even if
>> the rat can talk, that would prove almost nothing, but the human will say
>> "yes" to the doctor anyway, and without thinking to much on the theoretical
>> consequences of the possible survival.
>>
>> To stop comp to be *applied*, we should have made glasses illegal long
>> ago ... Then we can argue that molecular biology confirms the use of comp
>> by biological system all the time.
>>
>>
>> Bruno
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> George Levy
>>
>>
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>>
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