On 24 Dec 2013, at 17:24, spudboy...@aol.com wrote:
My iteration is simply this: How does this help our species, how
might this all change the human condition? My interruption in this
flow of rational, logical, and analytical reasoning. I am sorry if
this offends, but like Dr. Suess's Who's in Whoville, The Horton
Hears a Who, and not the Grinch one, I must rudely, ask,, how this
could help us?
Science is the search of truth, even if the truth is not helpful.
That is why science needs more courage than anything else. It is a
cure of wishful thinking a priori.
The separation of theology from science has abandoned the field to the
wishful thinking and its political exploitation by those who want
think at our place in the fundamental matter (life and death, and
health).
In that sense, coming back to modest scientific interrogative thinking
in theology, could help everybody in front of the truth, especially if
truth appears to be not as friendly as we would have liked.
Bruno
Us, the pitiful, violent, human species. God, Mind, Consciousness,
and all that? It needs to be asked, although, yes, some efforts are
purely intellectual. I always home in, the Existential.
Sincerely,
Mitch
-----Original Message-----
From: Edgar L. Owen <edgaro...@att.net>
To: everything-list <everything-list@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tue, Dec 24, 2013 11:12 am
Subject: Re: God or not?
Bruno,
No. The totality of reality must be logically consistent and
logically complete if it is computational (for which there is
overwhelming evidence) because if it wasn't it would fall apart at
the inconsistencies and pause at the incompletenesses and could not
exist. Thus since it does exist it must be logically consistent and
logically complete.
True that only direct experience is certain on the most fundamental
level, but it is also clear upon consistent examination that direct
experience is never as it seems to be in the sense that there is
clearly a deeper reality that is obscured by direct experience. If
we accept that reality is logical, which it must be to exist, then
all else follows and we can continue to discuss. Otherwise all would
be meaningless and futile which it clearly and self-evidently is
not, since if reality was not logical we could not function within
it which we do to varying degrees of competence. Therefore our
direct experience tells us that reality is a consistent logical
structure.
We can simply define what reality is = everything that exists. We
don't have to "search" for reality since it is everywhere and cannot
be escaped. What we search for is not reality, but its structural
details.
Lastly no, I do not believe in any "primitive physical reality". Not
at all. At its fundamental level reality is information running in
ontological energy which is not anything physical, it's simply my
name for the actuality and presence of existence which is
information and realness in the present moment rather than anything
physical. It is the actuality and presence of reality which
manifests as a present moment in which everything, including
ourselves, exists. It is the locus of reality which conveys actual
reality upon the computationally evolving information forms within
it. Because of its non-physical nature OE is difficult to properly
describe as Lao Tse noted about the Tao which was his take on OE.
Edgar
On Monday, December 23, 2013 1:48:40 PM UTC-5, Edgar L. Owen wrote:
All,
The question of whether God exists is meaningless without first
giving some definition of what is meant by God, of how God is
defined. Otherwise everyone is talking about different things and
nothing will go anywhere.
If you need a God there is only one possible rational definition and
that is to just define God as the universe itself. First there is
now absolute certainty that God does exist (all the interminable
meaningless arguments vanish), and second his attributes now become
the proper subject matter of science and reason rather than
ideology, faith or myth.
But most certainly the dogmas of all the organized religions are all
atavistic myths in the same category as Zeus and Odin which, like
them, should have been discarded millennia ago....
Edgar
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