On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 11:27 PM, Stephen Paul King <
stephe...@provensecure.com> wrote:

> Hi LizR and Jason,
>
>   Responding to both of you. I don't understand the claim of determinism
> is "random noise" is necessary for the computations. Turing machines
> require exact pre-specifiability. Adding noise oracles is cheating!
>
>
I think you misunderstand.  Computers are deterministic, but they often
need randomness to implement things such as cryptography or monte-carlo
simulations, etc.  Due to this need for true unpredictability, our
computers must harness environmental noise if they are to have any hope of
being unpredictable.  This is because computers cannot generate
unpredictability on their own.

Jason


>
> On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 11:22 PM, LizR <lizj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 28 December 2013 17:15, Jason Resch <jasonre...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 11:06 PM, LizR <lizj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Clearly programmes don't have to be deterministic. They could contain a
>>>> source of genuine randomness, in principle.
>>>>
>>>
>>> That source, if it is within the program, would necessarily be
>>> deterministic.  If it is external to the program, then it is more properly
>>> treated as an input to the program rather than a part of the program itself.
>>>
>>> In practice, computers draw on sources of environmental noise such as
>>> delays between keystrokes, timing of the reception of network traffic, and
>>> delays in accessing data off of hard drives, etc. These steps are necessary
>>> precisely because programs cannot produce randomness on their own.
>>>
>>> I knew that - honest! :-)
>>
>> I was answering the question as posed. I believe that in practice all
>> real-world programmes are deterministic, and (more to the point) the UD is.
>>
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>
>
>
> --
>
> Kindest Regards,
>
> Stephen Paul King
>
> Senior Researcher
>
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>
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