On 22 January 2014 11:38, Stephen Paul King <[email protected]>wrote:
> Dear LizR, > > Plain English explanations are the problem: they carry a set of > ontological assumptions built it. Kauffman is challenging these assumptions > and thus as to use a mixture of poetry and math to explain and elaborate > the idea. > I know, I know ... I was a bit tongue in cheek - but even so, he *does*seem to be going out of his way to make what he is saying hard to follow. It is possible to explain a complex theory, and to point out / remove the assumptions, and still be intelligible to an audience which doesn't have a degree in advanced hand-waving. You don't get away from ontological assumptions by obfuscation, you just hide them! Anyway, as I said, it seems to be suggesting something sensible, but I couldn't work out what it was, probly because I don't have time to gvie it the attention it deserves. So a plain English version (with ontological assumptions addressed in plain English) would be preferable. > > On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at 5:35 PM, LizR <[email protected]> wrote: > >> On 21 January 2014 17:51, Stephen Paul King >> <[email protected]>wrote: >> >>> Dear LizR, >>> >>> Did the notion of an Eigenform, as defined, make sense to you? >>> >>> Heinz performs the magic trick of convincing us that the familiar >>> objects of our >>> existence can be seen to be nothing more than tokens for the behaviors >>> of the organism >>> that apparently create stable forms. These stabilities persist, for that >>> organism, as an >>> observing system. This is not to deny an underlying reality that is the >>> source of >>> objects, but rather to emphasize the role of process, and the role of >>> the organism in the >>> production of a living map, a map that is so sensitive that map and >>> territory are >>> conjoined. Von Foerster’s (1981a-d) book and papers were instrumental in >>> pioneering >>> the field of second-order cybernetics. >>> The notion of an eigenform is inextricably linked with second-order >>> cybernetics. >>> One starts on the road to such a concept as soon as one begins to >>> consider a pattern of >>> patterns, the form of form or the cybernetics of cybernetics. Such >>> concepts appear to >>> close around upon themselves, and at the same time they lead outward. >>> They suggest >>> the possibility of transcending the boundaries of a system from a locus >>> that might have >>> been within the system until the circular concept is called into being. >>> But then the >>> boundaries have turned inside out, and the inside is the outside. >>> Forms are created from the concatenation of operations upon themselves >>> and objects >>> are not objects at all, but rather indications of processes. Upon >>> encountering an object as >>> such a form of creation, you are compelled to ask: How is that object >>> created? How is it >>> designed? What do I do to produce it? What is the network of >>> productions? Where is the >>> home of that object? In what context does it exist? How am I involved in >>> its creation? >>> >>> >> The above hints at some sort of sense - it isn't something I could >> (quite) dismiss as postmodern nonsense, for example - but I think I can >> safely answer your question - "no, please resubmit in plain English!" >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the >> Google Groups "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/everything-list/TBc_y2MZV5c/unsubscribe >> . >> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >> [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> > > > > -- > > Kindest Regards, > > Stephen Paul King > > Senior Researcher > > Mobile: (864) 567-3099 > > [email protected] > > http://www.provensecure.us/ > > > “This message (including any attachments) is intended only for the use of > the individual or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain > information that is non-public, proprietary, privileged, confidential and > exempt from disclosure under applicable law or may be constituted as > attorney work product. 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