Dear LizR,
On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at 8:06 PM, LizR <[email protected]> wrote: > On 22 January 2014 11:38, Stephen Paul King <[email protected]>wrote: > >> Dear LizR, >> >> Plain English explanations are the problem: they carry a set of >> ontological assumptions built it. Kauffman is challenging these assumptions >> and thus as to use a mixture of poetry and math to explain and elaborate >> the idea. >> > > I know, I know ... I was a bit tongue in cheek - but even so, he *does*seem > to be going out of his way to make what he is saying hard to follow. > It is possible to explain a complex theory, and to point out / remove the > assumptions, and still be intelligible to an audience which doesn't have a > degree in advanced hand-waving. You don't get away from ontological > assumptions by obfuscation, you just hide them! > Not really. Lou does not intentionally unfathomable explanation . His ideas demand meditation, not quick jumps to comprehension. > Anyway, as I said, it seems to be suggesting something sensible, but I > couldn't work out what it was, probably because I don't have time to give > it the attention it deserves. So a plain English version (with ontological > assumptions addressed in plain English) would be preferable. > Try this: http://www.gwu.edu/~rpsol/preconf/wmsci/kaufman2.pdf > >> On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at 5:35 PM, LizR <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> On 21 January 2014 17:51, Stephen Paul King >>> <[email protected]>wrote: >>> >>>> Dear LizR, >>>> >>>> Did the notion of an Eigenform, as defined, make sense to you? >>>> >>>> Heinz performs the magic trick of convincing us that the familiar >>>> objects of our >>>> existence can be seen to be nothing more than tokens for the behaviors >>>> of the organism >>>> that apparently create stable forms. These stabilities persist, for >>>> that organism, as an >>>> observing system. This is not to deny an underlying reality that is the >>>> source of >>>> objects, but rather to emphasize the role of process, and the role of >>>> the organism in the >>>> production of a living map, a map that is so sensitive that map and >>>> territory are >>>> conjoined. Von Foerster’s (1981a-d) book and papers were instrumental >>>> in pioneering >>>> the field of second-order cybernetics. >>>> The notion of an eigenform is inextricably linked with second-order >>>> cybernetics. >>>> One starts on the road to such a concept as soon as one begins to >>>> consider a pattern of >>>> patterns, the form of form or the cybernetics of cybernetics. Such >>>> concepts appear to >>>> close around upon themselves, and at the same time they lead outward. >>>> They suggest >>>> the possibility of transcending the boundaries of a system from a locus >>>> that might have >>>> been within the system until the circular concept is called into being. >>>> But then the >>>> boundaries have turned inside out, and the inside is the outside. >>>> Forms are created from the concatenation of operations upon themselves >>>> and objects >>>> are not objects at all, but rather indications of processes. Upon >>>> encountering an object as >>>> such a form of creation, you are compelled to ask: How is that object >>>> created? How is it >>>> designed? What do I do to produce it? What is the network of >>>> productions? Where is the >>>> home of that object? In what context does it exist? How am I involved >>>> in its creation? >>>> >>>> >>> The above hints at some sort of sense - it isn't something I could >>> (quite) dismiss as postmodern nonsense, for example - but I think I can >>> safely answer your question - "no, please resubmit in plain English!" >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the >>> Google Groups "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/everything-list/TBc_y2MZV5c/unsubscribe >>> . >>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >>> [email protected]. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Kindest Regards, >> >> Stephen Paul King >> >> Senior Researcher >> >> Mobile: (864) 567-3099 >> >> [email protected] >> >> http://www.provensecure.us/ >> >> >> “This message (including any attachments) is intended only for the use of >> the individual or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain >> information that is non-public, proprietary, privileged, confidential and >> exempt from disclosure under applicable law or may be constituted as >> attorney work product. If you are not the intended recipient, you are >> hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution, or copying of >> this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this >> message in error, notify sender immediately and delete this message >> immediately.” >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the > Google Groups "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this topic, visit > https://groups.google.com/d/topic/everything-list/TBc_y2MZV5c/unsubscribe. > To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to > [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > -- Kindest Regards, Stephen Paul King Senior Researcher Mobile: (864) 567-3099 [email protected] http://www.provensecure.us/ “This message (including any attachments) is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain information that is non-public, proprietary, privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law or may be constituted as attorney work product. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, notify sender immediately and delete this message immediately.” -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
