Quentin, Please refer to my extensive posts to Jesse for that...
Edgar On Thursday, February 6, 2014 1:21:13 PM UTC-5, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > So, what is it ? What is it supposed to solve in the first place ? > > > 2014-02-06 Edgar L. Owen <[email protected] <javascript:>>: > >> Quentin, >> >> But it's NOT the case... >> >> Edgar >> >> >> >> On Thursday, February 6, 2014 10:52:58 AM UTC-5, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> 2014-02-06 Jesse Mazer <[email protected]>: >>> >>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 9:01 AM, Edgar L. Owen <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> But recall that p-time is not a directly measurable quantity so >>>>> "arbitrary precision" does not apply. You still haven't grasped the >>>>> concept >>>>> correctly. P-time has no direct measure, because the present moment is >>>>> that >>>>> in which all measures, including those of clock time, are computed. >>>>> >>>> >>>> I don't recall you ever spelling that out in conversation with me, >>>> thanks for clarifying. In the past people had asked you about how to >>>> determine p-time and you had said things like "we should be able to >>>> compute >>>> p-time from Omega, the curvature of the universe" (in the post at >>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/everything-list@ >>>> googlegroups.com/msg47450.html ). So if you now say that determining >>>> which events are simultaneous in p-time is fundamentally impossible for >>>> any >>>> being within the universe, that answers what I was wondering about in >>>> question #1. >>>> >>> >>> If that's the case... what good is it to entertain such "p-time"... it's >>> useless. Predict nothing, cannot be measured. What is p-time supposed to >>> solve ? >>> >>> >>>> >>>> Jesse >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Nevertheless the fact of existence of all observers and thus of >>>>> everything in the present moment is a direct empirical observation. Just >>>>> like consciousness it is not subject to measure, but that doesn't mean it >>>>> doesn't exist. >>>>> >>>>> Edgar >>>>> >>>>> On Thursday, February 6, 2014 12:47:05 AM UTC-5, jessem wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 7:38 PM, meekerdb <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 2/5/2014 9:31 AM, Jesse Mazer wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> --question 1 dealt with the question of how YOU would define p-time >>>>>>> simultaneity in a cosmological model where there's no way to slice the >>>>>>> 4D >>>>>>> spacetime into a series of 3D surfaces such that the density of matter >>>>>>> is >>>>>>> perfectly uniform on each slice (and that uniform can be characterized >>>>>>> by >>>>>>> the parameter Omega), unlike in the simple FLRW model where matter is >>>>>>> assumed to be distributed in this perfectly uniform way. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I don't see that perfect uniformity is necessary. We have >>>>>>> calculated our epoch relative to the CMB as 13.8By. I assume any other >>>>>>> scientific species in the universe could do the same and so say whether >>>>>>> they were 'at the same time' as measured by expansion of the cosmos. I >>>>>>> don't see how the existence of galaxies and galaxy clusters precludes >>>>>>> this >>>>>>> kind of measurement. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Using the CMB may give an approximate answer, but would you argue it >>>>>> could distinguish between different simultaneity definitions that agree >>>>>> approximately when averaged over large scales, but disagree somewhat >>>>>> about >>>>>> the details of simultaneity in highly curved regions? For example, could >>>>>> the CMB be used to define a unique definition of simultaneity in the >>>>>> neighborhood of a black hole (where coordinate systems like >>>>>> Schwarzschild >>>>>> coordinates and Eddington-Finkelstein coordinates and Kruskal-Szekeres >>>>>> coordinates give very different definitions of simultaneity)? Edgar >>>>>> isn't >>>>>> just claiming some approximate pragmatic truth about simultaneity, he's >>>>>> claiming an absolute and exact truth about simultaneity in all >>>>>> circumstances, I was asking if he thinks this truth can be empirically >>>>>> determined to arbitrary precision even in principle, and if so what >>>>>> empirical observations would be used. >>>>>> >>>>>> Jesse >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Brent >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. (Roy >>> Batty/Rutger Hauer) >>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected] <javascript:>. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]<javascript:> >> . >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> > > > > -- > All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. (Roy > Batty/Rutger Hauer) > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
