On Thu, Mar 20, 2014 at 2:55 PM, <spudboy...@aol.com> wrote: > Very well, go ahead and power it all down. Shut off the cars, kill the > lights, take a bike. Are you suggesting that we continue to burn filthy > coal, or horrible uranium, while we try to goose up solar and wind to > replace it?!! Why that will take decades and the catastrophe is already > upon us. The heating of the atmosphere and the degradation of the lands and > seas, cannot wait (your guys tell us). Or what are they really saying, put > into motion in real life? It comes down to a culture of complaint from the > green-reds, rather than actual workable solutions. I want technical > solutions, but then, I am in the minority, as you indicate, and your side > (and it is your side) wants people controlled and dominated (impoverished) > and I see myself as someone who'd rather help people, liberate them, rather > that 'manage' them. If I was one of the people who decided things, what > would you do? >
You are one of the people who decides things. Energy costs are on the rise, no matter our political outlooks. You can decide to take a risk to try and mitigate this, which is complex and not as easy as listing your political preferences and intolerance. You talk "I'm in minority", which does not make sense because the majority of the world is not taking steps to make energy and environment more sustainable. You are in the majority, talking/chatting and not doing. Even if you feel you're in the minority: do something. You talk "liberating people"... then do it and save us the sermon. You talk "anti-state" but you advocate inaction. So basically the right for us to live in the effects of our trash/wasteful behavior, complaining about powerful interests, that through your inaction and ideological fox chanting extend their range by just another person. You talk "technical solutions" and you hope for some revolution among engineers. Good luck with that, but why judge people with a more nuanced and differentiated approach to the problems you state, who will not hope/wait for instructions or engineer revolution and start to plan and invest in transition means to mitigating energy's rising costs? The question has long shifted from your black and white "yes-no" to the grey complexities of real life with "how" on local, personal, and global levels. If you don't see this, then why keep preaching your political stance? Just be as wasteful as you can for as long as you can, before somebody shows up and says: "Business as usual will keep costs rising and poverty increasing, which we can't sustain long term; this behavior is stupid." Join fossil fuel lobby or something. Well paid job and you'll be more effective there than on this list, regarding this set of problems. PGC > No it doesn't have to... it's not because it can't currently replace > everything that it can't replace part of it... and it does thanks you're > not the one who decide things. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Quentin Anciaux <allco...@gmail.com> > To: everything-list <everything-list@googlegroups.com> > Sent: Thu, Mar 20, 2014 9:36 am > Subject: Re: The situation at Fukushima appears to be deteriorating > > > > > 2014-03-20 14:34 GMT+01:00 <spudboy...@aol.com>: > >> Please remember, solar, to remediate, must replace all nat gas, all >> coal, all uranium, all petro that all cities and cars. >> > > No it doesn't have to... it's not because it can't currently replace > everything that it can't replace part of it... and it does thanks you're > not the one who decide things. > > Quentin > > >> There are wonderful looking projects that have been proposed for 50 >> years, that for technical reasons, cannot achieve much, other than getting >> cheers from admirers in the media. I love it too, but it must do the >> rugged, robust, work, of replacement of the dirty-to be any good at all. It >> cannot simply be artist work on paper and splashed to the tech heads. My >> point: propaganda doesn't feed empty stomachs. >> >> If that solar farm described in SciAm had been realised it would have >> been carried out by a democratically elected government, not a dictatorship >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: LizR <lizj...@gmail.com> >> To: everything-list <everything-list@googlegroups.com> >> Sent: Wed, Mar 19, 2014 6:10 pm >> Subject: Re: The situation at Fukushima appears to be deteriorating >> >> On 20 March 2014 07:10, <spudboy...@aol.com> wrote: >> >>> Here's an article that informs me, if nobody else, how complicated the >>> climate thing is. >>> >>> http://phys.org/news/2014-03-goldilocks-principle-hypothesis-earth-habitability.html >>> >>> Beyond that I agree with John on his estimate of cutting the standard of >>> living down, to fit the ideal "environmental foot print." Improving the >>> standard of living with better energy technology will sustain the billions >>> and flourish the ecosystem-if done right. Technology is the answer, sans, >>> government rule of the public. Dictatorships, even well-meaning ones, are >>> horrible. Use Mao's approach to agricultural production during the Great >>> Leap Forward from 1958-62, as a prime example. >>> >>> If that solar farm described in SciAm had been realised it would have >> been carried out by a democratically elected government, not a >> dictatorship. Part of the point of having a government is to provide things >> that no individual or profit-based organisation would wish to do, such as >> building motorways, communications networks, hospitals, schools, power >> plants, rail networks, and other infrastructure. This would apply to some >> clean power schemes that are too large for a private investor, which >> applies to (some) tidal, wind, hydro, solar, nuclear etc. I can't imagine >> many private companies would have been building nuclear power plants off >> their own bat in the 1950s. >> >> So we need government to do stuff above the level that private enterprise >> can manage. Dictatorship is simply government done wrong. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > > > -- > All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. (Roy > Batty/Rutger Hauer) > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
