On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 11:14 AM, 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote:
> > > > > *From:* everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto: > everything-list@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Samiya Illias > *Sent:* Tuesday, July 01, 2014 8:54 PM > > *To:* everything-list@googlegroups.com > *Subject:* Re: Pluto bounces back! > > > > > > > On 02-Jul-2014, at 7:44 am, "'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List" < > everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > > > > > > *From:* everything-list@googlegroups.com [ > mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com <everything-list@googlegroups.com>] > *On Behalf Of *Samiya Illias > > > > Now I see why I am unable to answer you. Thanks for explaining! > > So, in principle, you are against any claims of factual accuracy from any > person or religion, and therefore prejudiced against all scriptures? > > > > I apologize for interjecting… > > however questioning a faith’s claims to factual accuracy in support of its > central tenets and dogma does not amount to prejudice. How is this > prejudice? > > A faith can be held for deeply felt reasons, but can faith present its > central dogmas in a manner that is falsifiable > > Science accepts the need for experiment & falsification; why shouldn’t > religion? > > Chris > > > > Religion does accept the need for experiment & falsification. Rather, the > Quran invites it's readers to think deeply and verify, as if this book was > from other than God, it would have contained much discrepancy. > > > > This invitation to parse the text for some written truth with a capital T > does not rise to the same level of experimental verification… e.g. religion > does not stand on the same footing as science. > Religion does not stand on the same footing as science. Religion overarches and encompasses everything, including science. > Inviting me to parse some ancient text for meaning is not equivalent to > providing me with experimental evidence for this hypothesis of this alleged > monotheist deity you are proposing exists. > > Can you provide such experimental evidence? > No, nor do I attempt to. I believe the monotheistic deity I worship exists, but I do not expect others to embrace my faith. I am guessing that since I suggested that the Quranic statements are scientifically correct, and hence should be considered, the members on this list assume that I'm preaching Islam? Is that why you ask for experimental evidence? > > > > > I posted a selection of verses which contained info verifiable by today's > science, PGC doesn't agree to their being as proofs of 'factual accuracy'. > > > > You presented some interesting perhaps, but inconsequential little tidbits > that have nothing to do with the central hypothesis you are defending. > Correct me if I am wrong, but it is my impression that you are proposing > your brand of monotheism as being scientific and on equal footing. If this > is indeed what you are attempting to state then I am going to respectfully > disagree and challenge you to provide something more relevant to the core > hypothesis, i.e. the existence of this particular monotheist deity. > If a book contains no mistakes in the verifiable part, what chances are there of it being correct o the non-verifiable part? Samiya > > > He asked for what the Quran says, so I quoted other verses explaining the > faith, which obviously is non-verifiable. Hence, I asked what he was > looking for. Perhaps 'prejudice' is too strong a word. I'll apologise to > PGC. Thanks for interjecting :) > > > > Samiya faith is a matter for you to decide for yourself in your own heart… > to hopefully quietly meditate upon it in solitude and reflection. You, I > and each of us must decide ultimately for themselves on matters of faith. > You have yours and you surely do believe in your faith, but your faith is > not science. > > No faith is… not even Scientology J > > Chris > > > > Samiya > > > > > > Given that I am convinced about the Quran being the truth from God, and > you convinced that nobody can have anything from God, I don't see if there > is a point in continuing this debate. Thanks for indulging me and letting > me express my point of view. I pray that God blesses all those who > earnestly seek with assured faith. Amen. > > Samiya > > > > On Tue, Jul 1, 2014 at 11:28 PM, Platonist Guitar Cowboy < > multiplecit...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > On Tue, Jul 1, 2014 at 5:02 PM, Samiya Illias <samiyaill...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > What is your definition of factual accuracy? Kindly explain with some > examples. > > > > You posted on this list bringing up "factual accuracy" regarding the > Quran, if I remember correctly. This is why I posed the question in a > variety of ways. > > But if I were to answer this in a strong technical sense of some domain, I > might be making the same mistake, blasphemy or "crookedness" that I sense > in the quoted/translated passages we discuss. > > Perhaps it is part of things that we cannot prove to each other and > perhaps this means that faith in this point, requires that we wrestle with, > question, doubt this kind of phenomenon or problem, of which there seem to > be many, and never, in our present kind of form at least, become > comfortable with it. > > Following this kind of line, perhaps nobody can answer this for anybody > else, or not even for ourselves. Some people say "we are the answer"; but > this is a bit too easy for me, although I can relate to the thought. > > Sometimes this gives me vertigo or makes me feel empty, and at other times > I feel like the emptiness is just more space to fill with joy, fascination, > wonder, and negation of pain, that we can share; if we stay polite, honest, > maintain peace, stay alert, learn to reason with more distance, and > appropriacy, tame our bestiality to minimize harming creation, and lust for > control etc. > > This means distancing ourselves enough from our own strict theology and > learning from our inner self and creation more directly, which is > difficult, but the only way I can parse, that would stop us from calling > ourselves names, fighting, waging war to hide our insecurity. Our personal > theology gives us security but takes away what little control we may have. > Our insecurity and our fears however, is something we share across all > religions. Maybe we should question them more directly, rather than > reciting our "best verses", every time we can't find a good answer. > > You'll find many answers in many texts and some contributions on this > list. Whether they satisfy/convince you, or whether they can do so in > principle or not, is a different question. > > > > It is in any case a good constant question to wrestle with, learn from, > and read about for the theological search beyond and underneath the > strong/loud interpretation of strict confessional religion, cultural > programs, and authoritative misuse of science, religion, and history. It > points also to the question of the relation between theology/science, and > the question of possible abuse (e.g. prohibition). > > So you see, I can't really answer your question, but you said you could... > ;-) PGC > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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