2015-01-12 11:49 GMT+01:00 Telmo Menezes <[email protected]>: > >>> >> Without mafia, it wouldn't exists at all in the first place. If the >> market was legal, it would be legally enforced. >> > > Yes, it would be regulated because people like you would demand it, using > the argument that free markets don't work. > But the delicious irony here is that regulation created by people like you > (prohibition) had the side-effect of crating a strong proof-of-concept for > free markets. >
Prohibiyion is not a legal market... if it is prohibited, then it is not sold... if the market is legal it is legally enforced... don't mix things. > > Free markets are so efficient that they work even under the extreme > hostile conditions of state-enforced prohibitions, exploiting only > reputation mechanisms, without any force or coercion. > Have you one example of non legally enforced market ? > > >> >> >>> >>> >>>> mafia are happy with that... >>>> >>> >>> Let's be clear: mafias exist because of the prohibition, not because of >>> bitcoins or Silk Road. >>> >> >> Sure, silk road was just another way that mafia used... not a competitor >> to them. >> > > There is no evidence of this whatsoever. Even the FBI is not accusing > Dread Pirate Roberts of any ties to organised crimes. > So the drug was created out of thin air by happy apprentice chemist... ok. > > >> >> >>> In fact Bitcoin and Silk Road are bad for mafias, because they make it >>> possible to create competition against them. >>> >> >> mouahaha >> > > So I assume you have no argument here. > You don't have any argument here... the drug market is owned by mafias in our shared real world, that's a fact... try to bypass them, they'll get back at you... you can laugh all you want, that's how it is... > > >> >> >>> >>> >>>> How the hell do you suppose dealers had drugs in the first place ? >>>> >>> >>> I'm not an expert by any means, but I can speculate. >>> Some drugs like cocaine or heroin require plants that can only be grown >>> in specific geographic regions, so it's likely that mafias control those >>> supply chains. But other drugs can be grown in people's houses, synthesised >>> by amateur chemists, legally bought with a prescription, geo-arbitrated >>> (drug laws vary a lot across the world) etc etc. >>> >> >> Yeah, yeah, silk road was provided with drug with chemist apprentice in >> their garage... you got better joke ? >> > > It's ok that you don't know certain things, my knowledge has gigantic gaps > too. What I don't understand is why you embarrass yourself without at least > googling a bit. > > https://www.google.com/search?q=amphetamine+lab+arrests > > Yeah and so these lab are not done under mafias controls ? you're joking surely... it's well known dealers make their own canabis and amphetamine in their garage and don't respond to anyone else except themselves, the ndrangheta does not exists, it's a chimera. > Also you use a bully strategy by picking little things I say and trying to > make them sound silly. > > On the other side of the street from my home there is a large store purely > dedicated to selling equipment to grow cannabis. In countries like Mexico, > pharmacies will sell you almost anything. > > >> >> >>> >>> >>>> Either you've got infinite bad faith here, or you so naive that it >>>> can't be so... so I'm left with bad faith here. >>>> >>> >>> I may be wrong, but I don't think it's fair to assume bad faith on my >>> part. I don't think I've made any unreasonable statement. >>> >> >> It's unreasonable to say silk road was a free market.. it was a >> controlled mafia market that's all, and if that is an example of free >> market... then I don't want to be in ! >> > > You provide no evidence or arguments for this. You just keep repeating it. > You provide absolutely nil evidence, that silk road was a free market not under the influence of the mafias at the base level of the products that were available on it.. please do. > > >> >> >>> >>> You keep going on tangents when you don't like the outcome of the >>> debate. We started discussing Silk Road as an example of how a free market >>> works without force. >>> >> >> Silk road *wasn't* a free market. So, it seems you don't like the obvious >> fact, not me who don't like the outcome of a debate. >> > > Do you have any argument to support your assertion that silk road was not > a free market? Or should I just take your word for it? > I have the first argument that nearly 100% of the market of cocaine/heroine/amphetamine is controlled under various mafias... the ndrangheta is know to control 80% of the market trade of cocaine in europe... any dealers who was selling that type of drugs could not have done so without mafias oversight... if you had stole them their market like you said it was, they would have get back at you and take you the market by the only way it has ever been done, by forcing you... they are not day dreamer, you piss them off, they kill you, as simple as that... you can dream all you want, that's the bare world we live in. Quentin > > Telmo. > > >> >> Quentin >> >> >>> You gave no argument against this, except for expressing a personal >>> distaste for some of the components of the market. I have an equal distaste >>> for mafias, but they are a product of prohibition and irrelevant to the >>> argument on Silk Road as a free market. >>> >>> Telmo. >>> >>> >>>> >>>> Quentin >>>> >>>>> Telmo. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> > >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> if that is an example of "free" market... then I'll prefer not >>>>>> to be part of it. >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> And that's another advantage of free markets over governments: >>>>>> you can chose not to participate. Governments will eventually through you >>>>>> in a cage for attempting to opt-out. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Participate with mafia ? No thank you. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > ? >>>>>> > >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> Anarcho-capitalism is a non-sense and an hijacking of the >>>>>> meaning of anarchism... anarchism cannot be capitalistic... that's a >>>>>> non-sequitur. >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> So I live in an anarchist society and decide to start my own >>>>>> currency. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Why would you do that ? To be the boss ? >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > No, to be free from popularity contests. To not have to worry if >>>>>> people like me so that I can have food and shelter. >>>>>> > >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> Am I going to be prevented from doing it? >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> You could, but it would be useless... who would want your currency >>>>>> in an anarchist society ? what for ? >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> Then there's authority and coercion and it's not really an >>>>>> anarchist society, is it? >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> o_O >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> Telmo. >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> Quentin >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> It is so evident for me that I would be very very surprised to >>>>>> find that you convince me after years of arguing with anarco-capitalists >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Telmo. >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> trade without love need big quantity of force. >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> It is a pity to see all these modern ideologies that are >>>>>> nothing but simplifications and adaptations of Christian concepts. No >>>>>> political system is better than other. The Christian call for a personal >>>>>> revolution, called conversion, to change what is around and have a better >>>>>> society, not a political change. Paul called for the obedience of the >>>>>> Cesar, and the Cesar at that time was Nero. Only by the example or >>>>>> testimony of each one that changes the people around, the system will >>>>>> mutate to a better one. Even if formally does not change. And the >>>>>> contrary >>>>>> the better political system will decay if the people do evil. No society >>>>>> will be free from corruption since it is in human nature. >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> In contrast the liberal sectarians of the ilustration and >>>>>> the french revolution though that a political change would change >>>>>> fundamentally the society for a better one without previously changing >>>>>> the >>>>>> people. That does not work. >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> After that, the socialist sectarians fo the comunist >>>>>> revolution though that a violent social change would create a new Man. >>>>>> That >>>>>> didn't work too. >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> What is next? the sectarian culturalist though.... >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> All of them are bad and cheap copies of the Christian >>>>>> conception of salvation, escatology etc. >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> But it is better to call things by his name. Democracy is an >>>>>> ideological lie. There is no such thing as democracy. There is the law of >>>>>> majority. and the result is not what the majority think, but what the >>>>>> elite >>>>>> -that they admire and obey- think. At the end the formal system does not >>>>>> matter >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> 2015-01-10 19:40 GMT+01:00 John Clark <[email protected] >>>>>> >: >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jan 9, 2015 at 4:08 PM, 'Chris de Morsella' via >>>>>> Everything List <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> > Functioning anarchy would require a level of individual >>>>>> ethics that does not yet exist >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> No, it's socialism that won't work unless everybody is a >>>>>> saint, and that's why socialist are always observed to be in a constant >>>>>> state of righteous indignation; people aren't behaving as he wants then >>>>>> to >>>>>> behave and as they must behave for his system to function. In general I >>>>>> can >>>>>> only think of 3 ways to get anybody to do anything, force, love, or >>>>>> trade. >>>>>> I think most of us would agree that all else being equal force is the >>>>>> least >>>>>> desirable of the three. Love is very nice and it works for some things >>>>>> but >>>>>> any economic system that must rely on people loving each other is just >>>>>> not >>>>>> going to work. So unless somebody knows of a fourth way that I haven't >>>>>> thought of there is only one thing left. >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The farmer grows my food, the trucker moves my food and the >>>>>> grocer sells my food, I didn't make them do it and none of these people >>>>>> love me, >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> yet the free market plunges them into a conspiracy to put >>>>>> food on my table. Capitalism can efficiently create wealth even if >>>>>> everybody is just looking out for themselves, I know of no other economic >>>>>> system that can do that. >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> John K Clark >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>> Google Groups "Everything List" group. >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails >>>>>> from it, send an email to >>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Visit this group at >>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>>>> Alberto. >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>> Google Groups "Everything List" group. >>>>>> >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails >>>>>> from it, send an email to >>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>> >>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>> >>>>>>>> Visit this group at >>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>>>>> >>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>> Google Groups "Everything List" group. >>>>>> >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>> it, send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>> >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>> >>>>>>> Visit this group at >>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>>>>> >>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> Alberto. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>> Google Groups "Everything List" group. >>>>>> >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>> it, send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>> >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>> >>>>>> Visit this group at >>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>>>>> >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>> Google Groups "Everything List" group. >>>>>> >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>> it, send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>> >>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>> >>>>> Visit this group at >>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>>>>> >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> -- >>>>>> >>>> All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. (Roy >>>>>> Batty/Rutger Hauer) >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> -- >>>>>> >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>> Google Groups "Everything List" group. >>>>>> >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>> it, send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>> >>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>> >>>> Visit this group at >>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>>>>> >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> -- >>>>>> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>> Google Groups "Everything List" group. >>>>>> >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>> >>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>> >>> Visit this group at >>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>>>>> >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> -- >>>>>> >> All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. (Roy >>>>>> Batty/Rutger Hauer) >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> -- >>>>>> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>>>> >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>> >> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>> >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list >>>>>> . >>>>>> >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > -- >>>>>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>>>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>> > To post to this group, send email to >>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>> > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>>>>> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >>>>>> . >>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. (Roy >>>> Batty/Rutger Hauer) >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. (Roy >> Batty/Rutger Hauer) >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. (Roy Batty/Rutger Hauer) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
