On 11 Jan 2015, at 22:48, 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List wrote:
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]
] On Behalf Of Samiya Illias
Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2015 11:58 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From
quantum theory to dialectics?
On Sun, Jan 11, 2015 at 11:09 AM, 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything
List <[email protected]> wrote:
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]
] On Behalf Of LizR
On 11 January 2015 at 15:50, Samiya Illias <[email protected]>
wrote:
When people criticise others' faiths, firstly it hurts others
feeling making the criticism fall on deaf ears.
>>When people criticise others' faiths, it's more than feelings that
get hurt.
Have you seen the cartoons… that went beyond criticizing or poking
fun at someone else’s faith… the portrayal of the prophet (for those
of that faith) is obscene, insulting, gratuitously degrading in
overt sexual manner meant purely to offend. It has no redeeming
quality to it. They published a stream of disgusting bigoted
religious, ethnic and racial stereotypes; not just a single time –
it was that papers bread and butter -- including such gems as a
stereotypical portrayal of pregnant African woman (with exaggerated
racially offensive features and fat post rape bellies) with the
caption casually and cruelly calling them welfare mothers. That is
just offensive to me, in the fucking extreme. It is pornographically
ugly racist & sexist hate speech to portray those underage victims
like that – IMO.
I defend their right of free speech in the same manner as I defend
the right of the KKK or Nazi skinheads to march. Free speech is only
free as long as it extends to even the most obnoxious hate groups
(including the racist newspaper Charlie Hebdo)… Free speech extends
to racists, fascists, sectarian, nationalist, and ethnocentric
bigots. I abhor their message, yet support their right to speech *on
principal* -- even though they would and are doing their best to
take away my freedom of speech.
But there is nothing noble or ennobling about Charlie Hebdo, or the
hateful racist people who made a living producing and disseminating
such racist filth and ethnic hatred. The person I feel sorry for is
that poor on duty cop, who got wasted.
For those who may not be following the news, please note that this
cop was a Muslim, who gave his life defending the right of free
speech of the people who were insulting the cop's religion.
They mocked those fanatics using bombs, not Islam. They were
caricaturing only those who *really* mock Islam by killing in its
name. They were appreciated by the secular muslims, in Egypt, Algeria,
Morocco, Palestine, etc.
As for the editor and staff they got the Darwin Award as far as I am
concerned. Fuck them, they were fucking racist assholes who did
their best to make this world uglier and bring it down to their level.
The Takfiri Salafist brainwashed assholes who did this are also
exemplars of the same disease, coming from a different direction.
Nor am I sad that they are dead either.
I abhor and condemn their actions, and don’t think anybody should
die for expressing their thoughts – even if those thoughts are
repugnant racist crap like Charlie Hebdo excelled at sullying the
earth with. But in the same breath, I find nothing, even remotely
admirable in the ugly stereotyping ethnic hatred that was their
staple fare.
Nor do I mourn their loss, they did their level best to piss off 1.2
billion people on this planet and eventually some really pissed off
violent crazies – from the group their hate speech targeted – took
matters into their own murderous hands.
It also would have been much preferable if the terrorists had been
captured alive, so they could have been tried for their crimes like
common criminals.
-Chris
Thank you Chris for your post -- appreciate it!
Samiya – I grow weary of the selective nature of what can be and
even more telling what *cannot* be mocked and satirized in our
putatively free speech defending societies. There is a lot of deep
seated hypocrisy in the West about European racism – IMO. When
Westerners depict other ethnic groups using grotesque caricatures,
this makes me queasy and uncomfortable, given the well know history
of European racism, slavery, and genocide.
All cultures (I am aware of) seem guilty of this practice – the
practice of de-humanizing the identifiable others – but this cannot
be cited as a defense of this practice. It would be like using the
fact that other people commit murder as a defense for murder; just
does not fly.
This world of ours is sick enough as it is; we do not need to drag
it any further down into the gutter of ethnic and sectarian hatred
than it already has been dragged down into. Our world seems
increasingly ruled by the lowest vibrations of mutual hatred; mutual
misunderstanding; mutual de-humanization.
We are all of us, brothers and sisters, we forget this at our own
peril; when we forget this we lose a part of our souls.
-Chris
I insist on this: Charlie Hebdo has never criticized Islam, or
Christianity, they only have mocked the contradictions
like pedophilia in the Church, or pseudo-muslims using bombs, or
socialist getting super-rich, etc.
Of course, in our culture, even before democarcy, we had the "fou du
Roi". The kings had some clown mocking them, to help people not
pushing the idolatry to far, and that is the ancestor of the satiric
press. But that exists also in India, in Turkey, and when those
"clowns" are the target of some power, it is a bad sign. In french we
say that there is only truth which can wound (seule la vérité blesse),
and what shock the muslims is that the image many pseudo-muslims gives
us of Islam, through the many use of "armed groups" invoking religious
matter.
Charlie did a good job: a remind that it is the task of the muslims to
fight against those people who kill Islam by using violence in the
name of Islams. They do that in Egypt, Israel, Syria ...
Charlie never mocked the prophet or Islam: it mocked the image of the
prophet which emerges from what barbarian nazis do in his name, and
which are the real danger for Islam and the world.
Bruno
Samiya
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