Samiya, I am always cautious not to hurt a fellow lister's feelings. Bruno is a bit mixed up with religion (uses 'theology', capital G in God, etc. etc.) so I do not question his 'faith' beyond what he disclosed already (I hope). I was always polite with your preconditions as well. Now that you question Creator vs. origin, (I assume you mean Originator) the question arises where did such Originator originate from? (I am not asking about 'times befor Origination', because I assign our concept of time a product of OUR universe (not even World) for ourselves, started with the universe (if it ever has been started?). Was there some 'originated' oeuvre when our world has been 'created'? - My narrative has a positive stance for that: there was an everything (I call it Plenitude) of which universes (Pl) were torn out by violation of the universal symmetry (Equilibration) of the Plenitude - all in interchange - when some (I call them: 'similars) got too close and so developed interactive complexities, what I call "A Universe". Such violations dissipate (within the no-time system) as they form - back into the Plenitude. This is something 'beyond us' with no Spiritus Rector involved, except for the ground-rule of the total super symmetry among ingredients(?) of the Plenitude, (call it: relations) what I 'suppose to explain something assigned usually to some 'Big Bang' - not without flaws itself. I agree with Bruno in the baseless faith of our agnosticism, unless somebody shows an acceptable basis. Even then my agnosticism may overwhelm. So far I did not get 'acceptable' explanation for neither a 'Creator' nor the Numbers. We gather (new) information continuously so I am not relying on ideas generated many centuries ago. I do not think we reached perfection. I used to be a meek religious chap as a youngster 70~90(!) years ago. .
Best regards John M On Sat, Feb 28, 2015 at 1:33 PM, Samiya Illias <[email protected]> wrote: > > > On 28-Feb-2015, at 11:00 pm, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> wrote: > > > On 27 Feb 2015, at 12:56, Samiya Illias wrote: > > Why don't you just call it One with a capital O > > > > Because I use "One" for Plotinus first Hypostase. I use God, for the > general notion, used by most philosophers and comparative theologians. > > > God / Allah (The Deity) are terms used for a being worthy of worship > (loving obedience). Does the One/God of Comp mean as such? From what I've > gathered from your explanations, it simply points to an origin, not the > Creator of the origin(s). Is that correct? > Samiya > > > Bruno > > > > > Samiya > > On 27-Feb-2015, at 4:23 pm, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> wrote: > > > On 26 Feb 2015, at 21:52, meekerdb wrote: > > On 2/26/2015 3:09 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > Fro the greek, the existence of God is a quasi-triviality, because God, by > definition, is the reality that we search. Then the real question is what > is the nature of God? A person? A physical thing? A mathematical thing? A > first principle, etc. > > > The Greeks had many concepts of the basis of reality which were not > assumed to be gods, i.e. persons. Anaximander called it "aperion". From > Wikipedia: > > "Greek philosophy entered a high level of abstraction, adopting apeiron as > the origin of all things, because it is completely indefinite. This is a > further transition from the previous existing mythical way of thought to > the new rational way of thought which is the main characteristic of the > archaic period (8th-6th century BC)." > > So I reiterate my objection that using "God" is not only obfuscating your > avowed meaning it is also wrong to say it's what the Greeks meant by the > basis of reality. > > > > Yes, it is a key moment in the greek theology, where at the beginning, God > was considered as finite, and the infinite was confused with the > indefinite, and almost an insult. Later they make the infinite (apeiron) > into a possible attribute of the ONE, and reserve the indefinite ofr the > notion of bad, or matter. > > If you don't like the term "God" I will use "Allah". The main point about > God is that it has no name, so *any* name is wrong. I did not use God, > except in a reply which has lead us to that infinite useless vocabulary > discussion. God is just the most common quasi-name (pointer). > > I made clear what I meant, and the important point is the coming back to > the scientific attitude in theology, which is typically concerned with > soul, afterlife, (re)incarnation, origin of universe, transcendence, truth, > non-nameable, etc. It is the ONE of Parmenides and Plotinus, and it is not > distinguishable from arithmetical truth, in case we are machine. > > BTW, sometimes ago, you suggested here to promote my work to Templeton. > How is that going? > > Bruno > > > > > Brent > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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