John, thank you for sharing your thoughts and narrative. i'm not sure anyone can provide an 'acceptable explanation' of the Creator/Originator. I think it is simply beyond our comprehension. However, I do believe that there is an overwhelming evidence of creation/origination, thus implying a Creator/Originator.
Samiya On Sun, Mar 1, 2015 at 3:06 AM, John Mikes <[email protected]> wrote: > Samiya, I am always cautious not to hurt a fellow lister's feelings. Bruno > is a bit mixed up with religion (uses 'theology', capital G in God, etc. > etc.) so I do not question his 'faith' beyond what he disclosed already (I > hope). I was always polite with your preconditions as well. > Now that you question Creator vs. origin, (I assume you mean Originator) > the question arises where did such Originator originate from? (I am not > asking about 'times befor Origination', because I assign our concept of > time a product of OUR universe (not even World) for ourselves, started with > the universe (if it ever has been started?). Was there some 'originated' > oeuvre when our world has been 'created'? - My narrative has a positive > stance for that: there was an everything (I call it Plenitude) of which > universes (Pl) were torn out by violation of the universal symmetry > (Equilibration) of the Plenitude - all in interchange - when some (I call > them: 'similars) got too close and so developed interactive complexities, > what I call "A Universe". Such violations dissipate (within the no-time > system) as they form - back into the Plenitude. > This is something 'beyond us' with no Spiritus Rector involved, except for > the ground-rule of the total super symmetry among ingredients(?) of the > Plenitude, > (call it: relations) what I 'suppose to explain something assigned usually > to some 'Big Bang' - not without flaws itself. > I agree with Bruno in the baseless faith of our agnosticism, unless > somebody shows an acceptable basis. Even then my agnosticism may overwhelm. > So far I did not get 'acceptable' explanation for neither a 'Creator' nor > the Numbers. > We gather (new) information continuously so I am not relying on ideas > generated many centuries ago. I do not think we reached perfection. > I used to be a meek religious chap as a youngster 70~90(!) years ago. . > > Best regards > John M > > On Sat, Feb 28, 2015 at 1:33 PM, Samiya Illias <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> >> >> On 28-Feb-2015, at 11:00 pm, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> On 27 Feb 2015, at 12:56, Samiya Illias wrote: >> >> Why don't you just call it One with a capital O >> >> >> >> Because I use "One" for Plotinus first Hypostase. I use God, for the >> general notion, used by most philosophers and comparative theologians. >> >> >> God / Allah (The Deity) are terms used for a being worthy of worship >> (loving obedience). Does the One/God of Comp mean as such? From what I've >> gathered from your explanations, it simply points to an origin, not the >> Creator of the origin(s). Is that correct? >> Samiya >> >> >> Bruno >> >> >> >> >> Samiya >> >> On 27-Feb-2015, at 4:23 pm, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> On 26 Feb 2015, at 21:52, meekerdb wrote: >> >> On 2/26/2015 3:09 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> Fro the greek, the existence of God is a quasi-triviality, because God, >> by definition, is the reality that we search. Then the real question is >> what is the nature of God? A person? A physical thing? A mathematical >> thing? A first principle, etc. >> >> >> The Greeks had many concepts of the basis of reality which were not >> assumed to be gods, i.e. persons. Anaximander called it "aperion". From >> Wikipedia: >> >> "Greek philosophy entered a high level of abstraction, adopting apeiron >> as the origin of all things, because it is completely indefinite. This is a >> further transition from the previous existing mythical way of thought to >> the new rational way of thought which is the main characteristic of the >> archaic period (8th-6th century BC)." >> >> So I reiterate my objection that using "God" is not only obfuscating your >> avowed meaning it is also wrong to say it's what the Greeks meant by the >> basis of reality. >> >> >> >> Yes, it is a key moment in the greek theology, where at the beginning, >> God was considered as finite, and the infinite was confused with the >> indefinite, and almost an insult. Later they make the infinite (apeiron) >> into a possible attribute of the ONE, and reserve the indefinite ofr the >> notion of bad, or matter. >> >> If you don't like the term "God" I will use "Allah". The main point about >> God is that it has no name, so *any* name is wrong. I did not use God, >> except in a reply which has lead us to that infinite useless vocabulary >> discussion. God is just the most common quasi-name (pointer). >> >> I made clear what I meant, and the important point is the coming back to >> the scientific attitude in theology, which is typically concerned with >> soul, afterlife, (re)incarnation, origin of universe, transcendence, truth, >> non-nameable, etc. It is the ONE of Parmenides and Plotinus, and it is not >> distinguishable from arithmetical truth, in case we are machine. >> >> BTW, sometimes ago, you suggested here to promote my work to Templeton. >> How is that going? >> >> Bruno >> >> >> >> >> Brent >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> >> http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ >> >> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> >> http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ >> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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