On Wed, Apr 1, 2015 at 3:02 AM, Russell Standish <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 27, 2015 at 07:28:51AM +0100, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > > The ab asurdo is showing computationalism is incompatible with physical > > supervenience, not that it is true. In the end by being forced to accept > > consciousness must supervene on the movie + broken gate... If you believe > > it, then you've abandon computationalism as a theory of the mind as the > > movie+broken gates is not a computation... Or you can keep > computationalism > > and abandon physical supervenience.... QED > > > > I have always disagreed with this. The movie+broken gates is still a > computation, just a rather simple one. Playing a movie in (eg) > SMPlayer is still running a computation. > And I have never understood how that doesn't void significance of 1p views. If this is totally tight, correct, mechanistic 3p view, then you get corresponding complete absence of meaning on 1p level of person/machine's discourse. "I played and watched a movie on my phone" becomes senseless as the person/machine is reduced to mere plaything of their beliefs concerning reality. Which is fine for say philosophers that want to eliminate 1p view, or positivists, but it has always struck me as too fast for anybody that has actually had the experience of playing that movie on their phone. It appears, we're left with zombieland and the impossibility of me stating "I am not a zombie" and this kind of statement not ending up to be gobbledigook. Sure it's possible, but the artist in me resists: I watched that movie, and the alternative is kinda ugly. We loose indexicality, the ability to point towards stuff, which is already present in hypothetical "yes doctor" statement of 1 person, which we took as true. Further, a definite substitution level, given the complete validity of 3p description, has to be accounted for. Over the years of seeing you post this kind of statement, I have never learned of your stance towards machine's interview, eloquence through silence of machines through Church, Loebian machines, indeed the "self-referential logic and discourse of machines" aspects of Bruno's work. But that's fine today as it is the fool's day, wherein I happily admit to being one that is corrected by the list... and *that *doesn't make any sense via above anyway, so I can't loose face even if I wanted to make a fool of myself now... :-) PGC > > As I see it, the argument still relies on an intuition that the > movie+broken gates computation cannot support consciousness. It is an > intuition pump, not a proof, and consequently a weakness of the MGA. > > And static vs dynamic is a red herring, because as Bruce quite rightly > points out, a static block Multiverse contains at least one, and by > definition all possible conscious entities. > > Cheers > -- > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Prof Russell Standish Phone 0425 253119 (mobile) > Principal, High Performance Coders > Visiting Professor of Mathematics [email protected] > University of New South Wales http://www.hpcoders.com.au > > Latest project: The Amoeba's Secret > (http://www.hpcoders.com.au/AmoebasSecret.html) > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the > Google Groups "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this topic, visit > https://groups.google.com/d/topic/everything-list/bQAAb5nK84w/unsubscribe. > To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to > [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
