Platonist Guitar Cowboy wrote:
On Thu, Apr 2, 2015 at 12:29 AM, Russell Standish <li...@hpcoders.com.au
<mailto:li...@hpcoders.com.au>> wrote:
On Wed, Apr 01, 2015 at 01:50:51PM +0200, Bruno Marchal wrote:
>
> OK, but so you agree that MGA shows that if comp is true, matter is
> of no use, unless we admit that a complex experience like a human
> dream can supervene on a very simple trivial activity. Then the MGA
> intuition pump seems to work well enough, imo.
>
> Bruno
>
You have just conceded my point. Then the MGA is not a logical proof (as
you have sometimes claimed, and Quentin claimed even more forcefully),
but rather an argument by incredulity, or an intuition pump as Daniel
Dennett puts it. Nothing wrong with that of course, we just need to
know what has actually been achieved.
I still don't see what MGA "pumps intuitively and incorrectly", as you
seem to assume that MGA is "bad" intuition pump, rather than "good" one
that facilitates seeing something tricky. You've not shown that
consciousness supervenes on broken gates, you don't treat movies like
conscious entities, and haven't pointed towards a recording that is
obviously or demonstrably conscious.
Your statement also seems to presuppose an absolute standard of "logical
proof" and that such would guarantee form of certain knowledge. Whatever
personal standards we may hold for "proof", there is some sense in also
interpreting it as form of relating to or communicating with other
people convincingly: 'proving' is trying to convince that one statement
follows from some specified other statements. If those other statements
are true, then the statement in question is also true.
The argument from incredulity is invalid -- not 'truth-preserving'!
I wish everybody a fine day, communicating with their movies, ensuring
that their movies' living standards, education, careers, finances,
health, social security, retirement plans etc. are in order. Each to
their own, but I'm part of set of people to whom that's just weird and
absurd. Sure, maybe I am weird and absurd. Fine, whatever. PGC
Don't you ever spend some of your time shouting at your television set
and complaining to movie characters that they are utter nutters and that
the story is farcically stupid! Or shouting at Hitchcock movies "Watch
out behind you there...!!!!"
Bruce
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