On Monday, December 18, 2017 at 6:37:39 PM UTC, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 16 Dec 2017, at 19:00, John Clark wrote: > > On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 9:20 PM, <[email protected] <javascript:>> > wrote: > > > >> I don't see how Wigner's friend presents a problem for Copenhagen. >> According to the CI, the wf collapses when the system measured, which is >> when the box is opened. What am I missing? >> > > > According to > > Copenhagen > > Wigner's friend > > opens the cat box and that > > collapses > > the cat's wave function, and so Wigner's friend > > now knows the cat's fate, but Wigner's friend > > is also in a box and Wigner > > himself is outside that box, so until Wigner opens his friend's box his > friend is in a "I see a dead cat" state AND a "I see a live cat state". > And of course you could put Wigner himself in a box with somebody outside > it and you could keep increasing the number of nested boxes until the > entire universe is included, and that is why the Copenhagen > > interpretation is useless if you're > interest is in > dealing in cosmology because there is nobody outside > to > universe observe it. > > And God > is of no help unless somebody knows who collapses God's wave function, > and even then there would be another unanswered question too obvious to > mention. > > > And with Digital Mechanism, even a Universe cannot help. How could > *anything* select a computation, or a class of computations, among all > computations? > But the first person associated to the universal numbers, involved in the > semi-computable relations, localized themselves in the relative way allowed > by the local self-referential correctness, apparently. > > Gödel's arithmetization of metamathematics embed the mathematicians in > the arithmetical reality/truth/model (the structure (N, 0, +, x). > > Remarkably, incompleteness justfies the equivalence, at the truth level, > of all modes p, Bp, Bp & p, etc. , and the fact that the machine cannot > justify those equivalences, and that they obey quite different logics. > > Kant can be tested, by looking for time, space and the quantum "in the > head" of the universal machine. Apparently he is right. > > Bruno >
*Translation: CMIIAW: Mumbo Jumbo OR There is a God. His name is Plato. He knows arithmetic. (Since he learned it from his father, we have an infinite regression of turtles within turtles.) AG * > > > > > > > John K Clark > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] <javascript:>. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > <javascript:>. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ > > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
