On Tuesday, December 19, 2017 at 8:03:00 AM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Monday, December 18, 2017 at 6:37:39 PM UTC, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 16 Dec 2017, at 19:00, John Clark wrote: >> >> On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 9:20 PM, <agrays...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> > >>> I don't see how Wigner's friend presents a problem for Copenhagen. >>> According to the CI, the wf collapses when the system measured, which is >>> when the box is opened. What am I missing? >>> >> >> >> According to >> >> Copenhagen >> >> Wigner's friend >> >> opens the cat box and that >> >> collapses >> >> the cat's wave function, and so Wigner's friend >> >> now knows the cat's fate, but Wigner's friend >> >> is also in a box and Wigner >> >> himself is outside that box, so until Wigner opens his friend's box his >> friend is in a "I see a dead cat" state AND a "I see a live cat state". >> And of course you could put Wigner himself in a box with somebody outside >> it and you could keep increasing the number of nested boxes until the >> entire universe is included, and that is why the Copenhagen >> >> interpretation is useless if you're >> interest is in >> dealing in cosmology because there is nobody outside >> to >> universe observe it. >> >> And God >> is of no help unless somebody knows who collapses God's wave function, >> and even then there would be another unanswered question too obvious to >> mention. >> >> >> And with Digital Mechanism, even a Universe cannot help. How could >> *anything* select a computation, or a class of computations, among all >> computations? >> But the first person associated to the universal numbers, involved in the >> semi-computable relations, localized themselves in the relative way allowed >> by the local self-referential correctness, apparently. >> >> Gödel's arithmetization of metamathematics embed the mathematicians in >> the arithmetical reality/truth/model (the structure (N, 0, +, x). >> >> Remarkably, incompleteness justfies the equivalence, at the truth level, >> of all modes p, Bp, Bp & p, etc. , and the fact that the machine cannot >> justify those equivalences, and that they obey quite different logics. >> >> Kant can be tested, by looking for time, space and the quantum "in the >> head" of the universal machine. Apparently he is right. >> >> Bruno >> > > *Translation: CMIIAW: Mumbo Jumbo OR There is a God. His name is Plato. > He knows arithmetic. (Since he learned it from his father, we have an > infinite regression of turtles within turtles.) AG * >
*Alternatively, you're putting WILL at the core of creation manifested by a Mathematician. AG * > > >> >> >> >> >> >> John K Clark >> >> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to everyth...@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> >> http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ >> >> >> >> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
