On Monday, February 19, 2018 at 5:46:16 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 18 Feb 2018, at 21:38, Lawrence Crowell <goldenfield...@gmail.com > <javascript:>> wrote: > > On Sunday, February 18, 2018 at 9:57:37 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 10 Feb 2018, at 14:29, Lawrence Crowell <goldenfield...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> On Friday, February 9, 2018 at 8:05:09 PM UTC-6, agrays...@gmail.com >> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Friday, February 9, 2018 at 5:58:04 PM UTC-7, Lawrence Crowell wrote: >>>> >>>> It occurred to me a case of hard emergence. The outcome of a quantum >>>> measurement is such. I have iterated how I think this is connected to >>>> self-reference, so I will not repeat that here. >>>> >>> >>> It would be useful IMO, if you did just that. How can random measurement >>> results be connected with "self referential", whatever that means? A good >>> idea, sometimes even a bad one, is worth repeating for evaluation. AG >>> >> >> I have outlined on this forum how a quantum measurement is really where >> quantum states measure quantum states. This is then self-referential and >> the odd properties of quantum measurement may then be due to the emergence >> or occurrence of principles outside of causal principles of quantum >> mechanics. >> >> >> >> It has to be like that if we assume mechanics, and indeed we recover >> quantum logic at the place we expect a logic for the first person plural >> observable of the machine. Physics can no more be the fundamental science, >> it becomes a branch of computer science, or better, of the “theology of >> number” (itself a branch of pure number theory). >> >> Bruno >> > > Or as a quote from a person named Butterfield I read earlier today is > paraphrased as "Mathematics is the syntax of the world, while physics is > the semantics of it.” > > > > That is rather misleading, given than in mathematical logic we keep well > the distinction between syntax (the theories, proofs, …), and the semantics > (usually infinite non syntactical mathematical object). The physical > reality can be seen as a semantics of a physical theory, but physics cannot > be seen as a semantic for many other mathematical theories. Then with > mechanism, there is no physical universe at the ontological level. It is a > phenomenological first person plural reality. > That Butterfield remarks will add to the confusion of many between a > theory and a semantic in mathematics. It looks like the older > conventionalist view of mathematics, which does no more make sense since > Gödel (Imo), and even less with Mechanism (the ultimate reaiity becomes any > models (in the logician sense) of arithmetic or of any Turing complete > theory). >

## Advertising

Consider Newton's second law F = ma. The right hand side of this equation consists of the mass m that is a kinematic quantity. The acceleration a = dv/dt = d^2x/dt^2 is a geometric and kinematic quantity. On the left the force F is a dynamical quantity. This is an elementary form of what Einstein commented on with his field theory "spacetime curvature = matter dynamics," where he called the left hand side gold and the right hand side wood. What we do is to interpret these formula, which in some sense is semantics. Nature gives us not so much the formula for interpreting how the LHS and RHS are equal, but rather we impose that on nature. LC > > > There is an open question on Lob's theorem, where this has a modal > construction called semantic soundness. > > > ? > > > > In the case of state reduction or why we observe certain outcomes we might > just be faced with this as a hard emergence that has no causal or prior > reason for being. There is no derived reason for it, but it just is. > > > > Then it is like the (classical) first person indeterminacy. You are read > and cut in Helsinki, and reconstitute in Sidney and Beijing: the 1p-ouctome > of that experience is indeterminate, even for God. But I would not say it > has no reason or no cause: on the contrary, it is because everything is 3p > determinate that the 1p is absolutely not determinate. > > Bruno > > > > > LC > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>. > To post to this group, send email to everyth...@googlegroups.com > <javascript:>. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.