Thanks Quentin! On 5 April 2018 at 15:03, Quentin Anciaux <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Le jeu. 5 avr. 2018 13:42, Telmo Menezes <[email protected]> a écrit : >> >> On 4 April 2018 at 10:21, Russell Standish <[email protected]> wrote: >> > On Tue, Apr 03, 2018 at 08:25:59AM +0200, Telmo Menezes wrote: >> >> Hi Russell, >> >> >> >> On Sat, Mar 31, 2018 at 10:30 AM, Russell Standish >> >> <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 05:14:21PM +0100, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> Now, is a jellyfish conscious? >> >> >> >> >> >> I bet they are, but not far away from the dissociative and constant >> >> >> arithmetical consciousness (of the universal machines). >> >> > >> >> > As I'm sure you're aware, I disagree with this. Jellyfish appear to >> >> > be >> >> > quite simple automatons, with a distributed neural network, not any >> >> > brain as such. However, my main reason for disagreeing is that >> >> > anthropic reasoning leads us to conclude that most species of animal >> >> > are not conscious. Our most typical animal is a nematode (for >> >> > instance >> >> > your favourite - the planarians), but even most insects cannot be >> >> > conscious either. >> >> >> >> I follow your anthropic reasoning, but am not convinced by the >> >> implicit 1:1 correspondence between one minute of human consciousness >> >> and one human of insect consciousness. I have no rigorous way of >> >> saying this, but my intuition is the following: there is more content >> >> in one minute of one than the other. I think it makes sense for the >> >> probabilities to be weighted by this content, somehow. >> >> >> >> Imagine a simple possibility: your anthropic reasoning being weighed >> >> by the number of neurons in the given creature. See what I'm getting >> >> at? >> >> >> > >> > My argument is simply that your first observer moment (ie "birth >> > moment", although not literally at birth) is selected at random from >> > all such possible moments. Thereafter, successor OMs are chosen >> > acording to Born's rule. Ant birth OMs are vastly more numerous than >> > human ones. A city of perhaps a million individuals lives under our >> > house, and ants are born, live an die far more rapidly than we >> > humans. >> >> Ok, I see. I don't buy that first OMs have some special status. In my >> view it makes sense to sample each OM from all possible OMs in the >> universe. I think I am a block universe kind of person, and I think >> that the feeling of continuity that we have in our lives is illusory, >> in a sense. It's just that my current OM is a complexification of >> other OMs, and that is what memory is. I am OM-centric, not >> me-centric. >> >> > To argue that OMs might be weighted somehow is quite close to the >> > ASSA, which I've never found convincing, though some argue for it here >> > on this list. Why should first observer moments be weighted by neuron >> > number? >> >> What is the ASSA? > > > Absolute self sampling assumption... It means your next OM is sampled from > the set of all possible OM. > > RSSA = relative self sampling assumption, means your next OM is sampled from > the set containing the nearest OM relative to your current OM. > > Regards, Quentin >> >> >> >> > -- >> > >> > >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > Dr Russell Standish Phone 0425 253119 (mobile) >> > Principal, High Performance Coders >> > Visiting Senior Research Fellow [email protected] >> > Economics, Kingston University http://www.hpcoders.com.au >> > >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > >> > -- >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> > Groups "Everything List" group. >> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >> > an email to [email protected]. >> > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
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