On Sunday, November 4, 2018 at 12:18:48 PM UTC-6, John Clark wrote: > > On Sun, Nov 4, 2018 at 9:19 AM Mark Buda <[email protected] <javascript:>> > wrote: > > *> Information is only processed in minds, not in physical systems,* >> > > A brain is a physical system. Mind is what the brain does. I think our > fundamental disagreement is you think "Mark Buda" is a noun but I think > you're a adjective, you're the way atoms behave when they're organized in a > Markbudaian way. > > * > unless you can show that minds are physical systems. * >> > > Before I can do that I need to know just what you mean by that term. A > racing car is a physical system, what a racing car does is go fast. Is > "fast" a physical system? It is certainly produced by one but whether it > itself is a physical system is a matter of philosophical interpretation of > no operational difference as far as I can see. > > >> > I believe minds are mathematical objects, as are physical systems, >> > > Turing did more than prove the Halting Problem has no solution, with his > machine he also showed us exactly how the laws of physics could produce > arithmetic. However nobody has shown how arithmetic could produce the laws > of physics or even come close to doing so. > > *> and that minds are a particular kind of mathematical object.* >> > > Then why is it that if I change the physical object that is your brain > your mind changes and when you change your mind your brain changes? The > function F(x)=x^2 is a mathematical object and it remains the same > regardless of what I do to your brain, but your mind doesn't. > > >> * > I strongly suspect that the particular kind of mathematical object >> that minds are is called a lawless choice sequence.* >> > > The lawless choice sequence was invented by the mathematician L.E.J. > Brouwer and he was also the founder of intuitionism, a philosophy of > mathematics that says mathematics is not fundamental is just the product of > the human mind. I don't know that I'd go as far as Brouwer because I > think ET of a AI or any mind would eventually come us with something > similar to our mathematics, but only because mathematics is the best > language to use when describing how the laws of physics work. > > John K Clark >
Brouwer, followed by Heyting, ... produced modern type theory, the foundation of programming language theory. http://www.cse.chalmers.se/research/group/logic/TypesSS05/Extra/nordstrom_sl.pdf *- Brouwer rejected the idea that the meaning of a mathematical proposition is its truth value.* *- Mathematical propositions do not exist independently of us *[alternative: language] *- We cannot say that a proposition is true without having a proof of it.* (when "us" or "minds" is replaced by "languages") - pt -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
