John Clark <johnkcl...@gmail.com> writes:

> On Sun, Nov 4, 2018 at 9:19 AM Mark Buda <her...@acm.org> wrote:
>
>  > Information is only processed in minds, not in physical systems,
>
> A brain is a physical system. Mind is what the brain does. I think our
> fundamental disagreement is you think "Mark Buda" is a noun but I
> think you're a adjective, you're the way atoms behave when they're
> organized in a Markbudaian way.

I'm a verb.

>  > unless you can show that minds are physical systems.
>
> Before I can do that I need to know just what you mean by that term. A
> racing car is a physical system, what a racing car does is go fast. Is
> "fast" a physical system? It is certainly produced by one but whether
> it itself is a physical system is a matter of philosophical
> interpretation of no operational difference as far as I can see.

I mean by "physical system" what physicists mean when they talk about
physical systems. I don't understand why you would expect me to mean
something else.

>  > I believe minds are mathematical objects, as are physical systems,
>
> Turing did more than prove the Halting Problem has no solution, with
> his machine he also showed us exactly how the laws of physics could
> produce arithmetic. However nobody has shown how arithmetic could
> produce the laws of physics or even come close to doing so.

I don't understand what you mean by "producing arithmetic" here.
>
>  > and that minds are a particular kind of mathematical object.

> Then why is it that if I change the physical object that is your brain
> your mind changes and when you change your mind your brain changes?
> The function F(x)=x^2 is a mathematical object and it remains the same
> regardless of what I do to your brain, but your mind doesn't.

When I can explain that to you, I will.

>  > I strongly suspect that the particular kind of mathematical object that 
> minds are is called a lawless choice sequence.
>
> The lawless choice sequence was invented by the mathematician
> L.E.J. Brouwer and he was also the founder of intuitionism, a
> philosophy of mathematics that says mathematics is not fundamental is
> just the product of the human mind. I don't know that I'd go as far as
> Brouwer because I think ET of a AI or any mind would eventually come
> us with something similar to our mathematics, but only because
> mathematics is the best language to use when describing how the laws
> of physics work.

I'm aware of that, that's why I've been reading "Brouwer meets Husserl:
On the Phenomenology of Choice Sequences", by Mark van Atten. You might
find it interesting.
-- 
Mark Buda <her...@acm.org>
I get my monkeys for nothing and my chimps for free

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