On Tuesday, December 11, 2018 at 3:44:26 PM UTC-6, Jason wrote: > > > > On Tue, Dec 11, 2018 at 1:20 PM Brent Meeker <[email protected] > <javascript:>> wrote: > >> >> >> On 12/11/2018 11:06 AM, Jason Resch wrote: >> >> >> >> On Tue, Dec 11, 2018 at 12:53 PM Philip Thrift <[email protected] >> <javascript:>> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Tuesday, December 11, 2018 at 12:45:13 PM UTC-6, Jason wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, Dec 11, 2018 at 11:29 AM Brent Meeker <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 12/11/2018 12:31 AM, Philip Thrift wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Monday, December 10, 2018 at 7:05:17 PM UTC-6, Jason wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> No one is refuting the existence of matter, only the idea that matter >>>>>> is primary. That is, that matter is not derivative from something more >>>>>> fundamental. >>>>>> >>>>>> Jason >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I can understand an (immaterial) computationalism (e.g. *The >>>>> universal numbers. From Biology to Physics.* Marchal B [ >>>>> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26140993 ]) as providing a purely >>>>> informational basis for (thinking of) matter and consciousness, but then >>>>> why would *actual matter* need to come into existence at all? Actual >>>>> matter itself would seem to be superfluous. >>>>> >>>>> If actual matter is not needed for experientiality (consciousness), >>>>> and actual matter does no exist at all, then we live in a type of >>>>> simulation of pure numericality. There would be no reason for actual >>>>> matter >>>>> to come into existence. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> If it feels like matter and it looks like matter and obeys the >>>>> equations of matter how is it not "actual" matter? Bruno's idea is that >>>>> consciousness of matter and it's effects are all we can know about >>>>> matter. >>>>> So if the "simulation" that is simulating us, also simulates those >>>>> conscious thoughts about matter then that's a "actual" as anything gets. >>>>> Remember Bruno is a theologian so all this "simulation" is in the mind of >>>>> >>>>> God=arithmetic; and arithmetic/God is the ur-stuff. >>>>> >>>> >>>> It's not just Bruno who reached this conclusion. from Markus Muller's >>>> paper: >>>> >>>> In particular, her observations do not fundamentally supervene on this >>>>> “physical universe”; it is merely a useful tool to predict her future >>>>> observations. Nonetheless, this universe will seem perfectly real to her, >>>>> since its state is strongly correlated with her experiences. If the >>>>> measure >>>>> µ that is computed within her computational universe assigns probability >>>>> close to one to the experience of hitting her head against a brick, then >>>>> the corresponding experience of pain will probably render all abstract >>>>> insights into the non-fundamental nature of that brick irrelevant. >>>> >>>> >>>> Jason >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> What is the computer that running "her computational universe"? >>> >>> >> The very same that powers the equations that bring life to our universe >> as you see it evolve. >> >> >>> What is its power supply? >>> >>> >> Power is only required to erase information, and that is only a concept >> of the physical laws of this universe. Even the laws of our universe >> permit the creation of computers which require no power to run. >> >> See the bit about reversible computing: >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landauer%27s_principle (computations that >> are reversible require no energy). >> >> >> And they produce no results since they run both ways. They are not even >> computations in the CT sense. >> > > I am not sure about that. There is the concept of reversible Turing > machines: > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reversible_computing#Logical_reversibility > > Jason >
"Reversible computing is a form of unconventional computing <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unconventional_computing>." :) - pt -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
