> On 9 May 2019, at 19:38, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > On 5/9/2019 4:52 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 4 May 2019, at 02:32, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List >>> <[email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On 5/3/2019 2:00 PM, [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> On Friday, May 3, 2019 at 3:26:26 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> On 5/3/2019 12:00 PM, [email protected] <javascript:> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> If "consciousness doesn't supervene on physical [or material] >>>>> computation" then does that mean there is realm for (A) consciousness and >>>>> one for (B) physical [or material] computation? >>>> >>>> No, the theory is that all possible computations (the UD) exist and they >>>> instantiate all conscious thoughts, including those we call perception of >>>> an external reality. There isn't anymore to reality; it's just the >>>> statistical regularities among the different threads of the UD. At least >>>> that's Bruno's idea. >>>> >>>> Brent >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> There could be UD-computing that is being executed by the brain. One can't >>>> rule this out a priori. >>>> >>>> I just say if so, it is being executed in a material substrate - the brain! >>>> >>>> There is no heavenly realm where UD-computing is churning away. >>> >>> The question is whether there is a realm consisting of arithmetic. >> >> If there is none, then there is no more physical science at all. To have any >> physical science capable of explaining brains, or even my laptop, you need >> to assume that 2+2=4 and its consequences. > > But you don't have to assume "primitive arithmetic". You adduce all you need > empirically.
I can’t, because the “empiric” is what I want to explain. The empiric by idetlf is neutral on the nature of the fundamental things. Could be a physical universe, but it could be a video games in arithmetic. But then it has to be: quantum logic below my substitution level,. > >> >> Primary matter is not something observable, in any direct way. > > Neither is arithmetic. Right. But "2+2=4", of "91 is not prime", or "the machine says “hello” on input “hello”, etc, are derivable from very simple axioms on which everybody agree. Adding matter or a god bigger than (sigma_1) arithmetic leads to insuperable problems, so big that that some people want us to doubt on consciousness and person, … Bruno > > Brent > >> We can only asses or refute it by meaning numbers, that is, experimental >> physics. >> >> Now, with just a bit more than arithmetic, we can define the realm of >> arithmetic: it is the structure (N, 0, +, x). It is used in the definition >> of real and complex numbers, which are assumed in most physical theories. >> >> Bruno >> >> >> >>> >>> Brent >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to [email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list >>> <https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list>. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list >> <https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list>. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/1F886ABC-7AB6-49F9-B69A-47554E8708C9%40ulb.ac.be >> >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/1F886ABC-7AB6-49F9-B69A-47554E8708C9%40ulb.ac.be?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list > <https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/6e861d90-28d9-3307-7080-0e77816fc030%40verizon.net > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/6e861d90-28d9-3307-7080-0e77816fc030%40verizon.net?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout > <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/3B26C7B2-BB9F-4568-AF3E-AD0CA4600C2B%40ulb.ac.be.
