> On 10 May 2019, at 03:22, Bruce Kellett <[email protected]> wrote: > > On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 10:54 AM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> > wrote: > On 5/9/2019 5:18 PM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > That all subjectively indistinguishable computations going through > > that state are a possibility means the consciousness cannot identify > > itself with any one particular thread of computation. In this sense > > that consciousness is not the same as one of the programs passing > > through that state. But to say the consciousness is not identical > > with one of the computations is different from saying that computation > > is not conscious. If none of the threads of computation resulted in > > consciousness, you wouldn't magically get consciousness once you > > reached an infinite number of them. The only thing you gain with the > > infinite number of all the computations going through that state is > > the correct statistics regarding the future evolution of that conscious. > > "The state" seems a problematic concept to me. It tries to roughly > equate a state of consciousness, a thought, with a state of a Turing > machine (plus tape). But saying yes to the doctor implies a much lower > level of substitution than "a thought". Thoughts come from perceptions, > among other things, which are not complete thoughts or "states of > consciousness". So it is not at all clear what it means for > "computations going thru that state" when the state may refer to > thousands of steps of the Turing machine. Is a computation thread that > share 999 of the states "going thru the state"? And to further > complicate this mapping between thoughts and machine states, there > sequence of machine states is the same at the temporal order of thoughts. > > I think the level of confusion is even greater than this. In order to develop > the YD+CT argument, one must assume the existence of a physical world that is > independent of the consciousness one is trying to emulate in a computer.
We must assume the existence of a physical reality, sure, but we don’t need to assume that the physical reality is fundamental or independent of the mind of the universal numbers (which requires only arithmetic). > But if this physical world is just statistics over the computations through > the conscious state, then altering the physical world (by constructing the > computer to replace the brain) must alter the conscious state, since the > physical world is not independent of the conscious state in that case. If the > YD+CT argument based on the assumption of an independent physical world leads > to the conclusion that there is no independent physical world, then you have > a reductio ad absurdum, and the argument cannot be valid. The assumption of a physical reality +mechanism, just leads to the idea that the physical reality is not fundamental, but. Emerges from the inside view in arithmetic. Bruno > > Bruce > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list > <https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAFxXSLQ_TpBNMOcs_f4Zyq6TiRGBeKkWB%2B6YBzt3Px%2BwjC%2B5vA%40mail.gmail.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAFxXSLQ_TpBNMOcs_f4Zyq6TiRGBeKkWB%2B6YBzt3Px%2BwjC%2B5vA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout > <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/7E6261E8-35E7-4043-B1DC-5473982ADDE1%40ulb.ac.be.
