On Thursday, August 1, 2019 at 3:51:45 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 31 Jul 2019, at 09:25, Philip Thrift <[email protected] <javascript:>> > wrote: > > > If it isn't stuff (at the bottom of it), it it isn't real. > > Otherwise, it is idealism, which physics (as today's "popular" physicists > present it to the public) has become today. > > *In philosophy, idealism is the group of metaphysical philosophies that > assert that reality, or reality as humans can know it, is fundamentally > mental, mentally constructed, or otherwise immaterial.* > > > > In a first approximation, this can help. But, at some point, it might be > handy to distinguish between > > - human idealism (what you describe by “ that assert that reality, or > reality as humans can know it, is fundamentally mental, mentally > constructed”) > > -universal idealism (the same with “human” replace by digital machine or > (intensional) number (I will lake this notion clear in the glossary that I > have promised). > > - immaterialism (the belief in a Turing universal system and in no more > than that for the ontology). > > The last case is more a neutral monism than an idealism, as the ideas are > not really primitive, they occur in the mind of numbers, which are taken as > the “independent ontology” that we assume. > > Metter is not “just” an idea in the mind of some numbers: it is a > phenomenological reality that *all* universal number encounter. The > physical reality is a deep invariant sharable by all machine/number, and > which has for them also a non sharable part (the qualia, the immediate > consciousness, …). > > Bruno > > > *To identify qualia themselves with purely numerical entities* is the question.
If qualia are nonnumerical, and assuming they are real (which I do), then they must be nonnumerical (or non-"physical") material constituents of nature. @philipthrift -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/8cbb27c6-0f81-44c5-b59e-fd04f2b00248%40googlegroups.com.
