On Friday, August 2, 2019 at 4:20:58 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > > On 2 Aug 2019, at 00:57, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < > [email protected] <javascript:>> wrote: > > > > > > > > On 8/1/2019 5:34 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> This is the tour de force of the Theaetetus definition when applied in > the Mechanist frame: it explains why machines are necessarily confronted > with things which are not only not computable, but not representable in any > third person way. > >> The corresponding logic (the modal logic of [1]p, with [1]p defined by > []p & p), i.e. S4Grz is a formal logic describing a non formalisable > reality accessed by all (sound) machine. Yes, that is a (meta- tour de > force, made possible tanks to Gödel completeness and Incompleteness > theorem, together with Tarski un-definability of truth theorem (and > Scott-Montague un-definability of knowledge theorem). > >> > >> Qualia are non physical and non numerical, yet phenomenologically real > and explained or “meta-explained”, like for consciousness. > > > > But this is not at all convincing. Just because some things (reflective > relations) are not computable by the prefect logic machine does not show > they are models or instances of qualia. Qualia are perceptions for example, > which are partly shareable. > > We share only the number relations. Not the qualia itself. We only > projects ours on others, when enough similar to us. > > The machine qualia are not just non computable, they are non definable and > obey to a logic of qualia known before we found it in the discourse of the > machines. They have a conical perceive field associated with them. A good > paper is the paper on quantum logic by John Bell (not the physicists, but > the logician). There are some mistake in that paper, but not relevant here. > > Bell, J. L. (1986). A new approach to quantum logic. Brit. J. Phil. Sci., > 37:83-99. > > Bruno > > > If qualia are not "number relations" then they must be substances on their own.
And what is substance that is (at least partly) non-numerical: matter. @philipthrift -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/abfea10f-22b1-4225-aeeb-ad69bcf25e8b%40googlegroups.com.
